NorthernLiberties.org - A Community Bulletin Board - Northern Liberties, Philadelphia

sweet potato fries

IP: 151.197.209.240

Jan 27, 07 - 2:00 PM

ground floor

I miss the coffee shop at 2nd and Poplar (ground floor?). Does anyone know if it will be reopening?

Cheesesteak the Impaler

IP: 141.158.243.98

Jan 27th, 2007 - 3:10 PM

Re: ground floor

Since when?!?

MistaT

IP: 63.250.179.198

Jan 29th, 2007 - 12:31 PM

Re: ground floor

its been closed a week and half roughly. sign says they're getting some thing together but doenst have a reopen date.

weak stuff

IP: 65.78.36.17

Jan 29th, 2007 - 12:36 PM

Re: ground floor

place was garbage sad to see another nl store bite the dust, come on rita's!!

czarjosh

IP: 68.162.66.201

Jan 29th, 2007 - 4:11 PM

Re: ground floor

There is a sign in the window that says it is for sale.

say it ain't so!

IP: 75.199.226.108

Jan 29th, 2007 - 7:51 PM

Re: ground floor

i hope that it's not true! it was never about the coffee. it was more about a great outdoor hangout at the best intersection in town. warm summer nights, music in the air, crowds milling about outside the tap...oh the memories...

maybe that was part of the problem - too many folks just hanging out, and not enough buying coffee (guilty as charged).

mistaT

IP: 69.253.247.175

Jan 29th, 2007 - 9:09 PM

Re: ground floor

NO!!!! Ground Floor was awesome!...some of the best vibes in the hood...I truly hope someone good takes over that space cause keeping that open space open, music filled, and green is necessary in my opinion.

Rita's is awful and a crappily run chain. don't let that touch this hood.

Cheesesteak the Impaler

IP: 68.163.43.155

Jan 29th, 2007 - 10:41 PM

Re: ground floor

That space would be great for a Copagiro (can't spell ... you know the Gellato places in Center City) ... if the Foodery across the street didn't have their mini-franchise already.

Not to incur MistahT's pity, but I wouldn't mind a Rita's. Then again, aren't a lot of them only open seasonally anyway?

Dylan

IP: 68.46.183.51

Jan 29th, 2007 - 11:30 PM

Re: ground floor

I don't really have a problem with a Rita's coming to the neighborhood, but that corner deserves something much better.

JM

IP: 68.32.203.155

Jan 30th, 2007 - 12:25 AM

Re: ground floor

From RitasIce.com:

Store must be allowed to close during the off-season

(typically mid-October through mid-March).

Trademark backlit awnings and dome signs preferred.

Ideally, the site will have clearly visible parking in excess
of 20 spaces.

Nontraditional sites include:
– Street-front stores
– Kiosks and in-line mall locations
– Boardwalk locations
– Airports
– Theme parks

Kevbo

IP: 12.111.212.179

Jan 30th, 2007 - 10:51 AM

Re: ground floor

just shameful. So I guess a Rita's (which have no place her whatsoever) will use that great side yard for parking and we'll lose another gem of the neighborhood. And the bright red and white awnings? Didn't we have enough with the CREI sign blaring like the sun all night?

Party at the moon tower!

Brita

IP: 65.202.14.66

Jan 30th, 2007 - 12:04 PM

Re: ground floor

Just as an FYI - the proposal for Rita's lists the address as 800 N. 2nd Street which is the corner of 2nd and Brown. Ground Floor was at the corner of 2nd and Poplar.

just me,,,

IP: 68.32.207.203

Jan 30th, 2007 - 12:23 PM

Re: ground floor

word has it that it has been sold by the owner and will probably reopen very soon....

hopefully it will remail the Ground Floor....

MistaT

IP: 63.250.179.198

Jan 30th, 2007 - 2:28 PM

Re: ground floor

have my fingers crossed...I hope that the old owner sells it to the two cute girls who worked mornings...the dark haired one especially, great way to wake up

E

IP: 209.204.103.6

Jan 30th, 2007 - 4:24 PM

Re: ground floor

that's too bad, I like the dog.

kelley

IP: 68.32.224.145

Jan 30th, 2007 - 7:49 PM

Re: ground floor

i tried to like that place, but each and every time i went in, the coffee was lukewarm and just ok tasting, and i never felt welcome there. i liked the pond, and i LOVE one shot. also, higher grounds isn't bad, but i rarely go because it's not as close to my building.

anyway, can't say i'm sad to see ground floor go. as much as i love rita's in the summer, it doesn't belong there. i too would love to see another green, non-chain establishment on that corner. but this time, one that is non-cliquey with a consistantly quality product.

weak stuff

IP: 65.78.36.17

Jan 30th, 2007 - 8:58 PM

Re: ground floor

if the owner was there more maybe it would still be open, she was there less and less and the product was so inconsistent bad business practice.

damonabnormal

IP: 68.34.175.76

Jan 30th, 2007 - 9:50 PM

Re: ground floor

hello?! people... Rita's is proposed for 2nd & BROWN, not Poplar!!!

Rant aside I will really miss the GF and the owner as she was cool (as was her dog) but I agree about the service when she was not around. The tall dude was great but everyone else there was more into their friends if ya knowwhatimean. Hopefully whomever bought it will keept it as it is but will improve it a bit. Move night, hanging in the corner park, mexican mocha's, all that was good...

fishter

IP: 71.242.251.250

Jan 31st, 2007 - 11:31 AM

Re: ground floor

Hey at least Rita's was started by a Philly guy. I know its been sold to a corp. entity, but its still better than a starbucks......

neighbor

IP: 171.159.192.10

Jan 31st, 2007 - 2:15 PM

Re: ground floor

IF RITA'S COMES TO NL'S THAT WILL BE THE STRAW THE CAMEL'S BACK. I'LL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO GO INTO VOLUNTARY EXILE TO FISHTOWN OR BELLA VISTA, LIKE HUNDREDS OF FORMER NL'S RESIDENTS HAVE DONE IN THE PAST YEAR. Seriously, it seems all the new, exciting cafes, restaurants and pubs are opening in places like the Gayborhood, North Broad, etc. For those who've become complacent about NL's recent turnaround and are clamoring for a Rita's American Water Ice (there's no such thing as 'water ice' in Italy), a word of caution: home prices CAN go down. Bring in Rita's and a Wawa and Olive Garden (Look Out, Sovalo!) won't be far behind.

E - A - G - L - E - S!

IP: 38.98.201.247

Jan 31st, 2007 - 2:26 PM

Re: ground floor

I'd settle for a Trader Joes...

Ritas? Ugh. Send me to the suburbs.

CC

IP: 148.177.1.212

Jan 31st, 2007 - 3:06 PM

Re: ground floor

you people are so name concious! And you call yourselves Hipsters. Shame on you. Ritas is going to be a store that sells delicious flavored ice that is refreshing in the summer months. What's so bad about that. And who the hell cares if it's called Rita's or Tim's or the Famous NL family-owned local, water ice stand?

DDR

IP: 74.0.115.57

Jan 31st, 2007 - 3:29 PM

Re: ground floor

Americans in general are name-conscious and that can work for or against a given business. Why do so many people go to the Olive Garden, for example, when the food sucks and is an affront to Italian sensibility altogether, while there are many good privately-owned Italian restaurants? Same thing with McDonald's - the food is garbage and hamburgers can't be found elsewhere?
Just because a business has an identifiable name makes it more appealing/"safe"(there's that word again) to many consumers, but not because it's better. So just call what's going on here a reverse in the trend.

If you have two comparable businesses, one a chain, the other privately owned, I'm going to choose the one privately owned because I'm tired of everything being completely homogenized. Not to mention the small business needs your patronage more.

Do you guys remember South Street years ago? Almost all unique little businesses(South St.Souvlaki is STILL there!) now it's not much different than an open-air mall. Same for Main St. Manayunk. I hate to say it, but you start letting franchises in it becomes an avalanche.

Capogiro - absolutely! Rita's - just plain disappointing and generic. Quite honestly I wouldn't be interested in paying for artificially-colored ice even in August.

Ed Teach

IP: 38.102.198.26

Jan 31st, 2007 - 3:42 PM

Re: ground floor

Passyunk Square/Italian Mkt is the new hotspot....with Passyunk Ave. on the rise - new shops, pubs, restaurants, coffee shops and cafes, it's booming 10x faster than NL did in 10 years (unless you're counting condo development). And the best part is that it's all residential and there isn't any room for condos.

weak coffee

IP: 65.78.36.17

Jan 31st, 2007 - 3:55 PM

Re: ground floor

thought this was a coffee shop closing thread?

Libby

IP: 66.227.95.240

Feb 1st, 2007 - 10:39 AM

Re: ground floor

Ground floor was a wonderful little place. Do you remember the summer when they played the first season of Twin Peaks on Thursday nights? Amazing.

and as for Rita's, how true is that? I've been looking to cease renting and buy but if we turn that road I may reconsider. first rita's, next thing you know it'll be starbucks, city blue and all the other commercial crap that populates south street.

CC

IP: 148.177.1.213

Feb 1st, 2007 - 11:35 AM

Re: ground floor

There is some truth to chains being predictable and flashy, but they aren't all bad. First of all, chains provide greater convenience than do corner stores (they seldom run out of stock, their hours cator to the customer rather than the owner, and their goods are usually more affordable). This is why more people go to McDonalds than a corner store for a burger. You spend 2 bucks and 5 minutes and you've got dinner.

Second, most chains are franchised, meaning, if Joe Blow buys the rights from corporate to open a Wawa in NL, he can alter the appearance and presentation to meet the style of the neighborhood and ultimately increase profits.

And, finally, chains will employ more NL residents. A 24-hour Wawa will employ three or four shifts of anywhere from 3 to 8 employees a shift. that's a lot of jobs compared to a family-run market that emloyees a husband, wife and maybe local teenager part time.

I think there can be a compromise of local corner stores and chains. Urban neighborhoods in this day and age of stressed, super-busy people need some convenient, affordable, quick stops to thrive. Not everyone is an artist who can take an hour break at 2pm and walk to the local coffee shop for a relaxed lunch.

DDR

IP: 74.0.115.57

Feb 1st, 2007 - 11:54 AM

Re: ground floor

You love WaWa so much CC!! And you're entitled to...but
why are they better than say a Palm Tree Market? They've
been a great addition to the neighborhood even if they're not open super-late. Also, why do people move into a neighborhood only to change/alter/criticize it's inherent character? Why not live in a place where those things already exist?

KR

IP: 130.91.60.197

Feb 1st, 2007 - 12:14 PM

Re: ground floor

Great post DDR! I moved here because I love the area as is. Palm Tree is a big part of that. They have much higher quality food than Wawa, and if they run out of something, they have something comparable. Who cares about never ending stock of low quality? If I need something later, it's not very hard to hop in the car to hit one of the gas stations.

I'd rather not have this area become a full out chain place, it ruins the unique feel and makes it just like everywhere else.

CC

IP: 148.177.1.212

Feb 1st, 2007 - 1:55 PM

Re: ground floor

What, we're not allowed to provide our input on how we think the neighborhood could improve? Who said I don't like it here? I simply think a chain store, like a Wawa would be a huge addition to NL. I love Palm Tree and go there at least three times a week after I leave the gym (which I also like). In fact, I probably patranize more NL neighborhood eateries, shops, bars and business than you do DDR. However, if I want a cup of coffee and a breakfast sandwich on a Sunday morning, I have to get in my car and drive out of our neighborhood. That is totally ridiculous for a supposed vibrant urban community. It also hurts NLs continued growth and improvement efforts.

CC

IP: 148.177.1.212

Feb 1st, 2007 - 2:01 PM

Re: ground floor

Or, even more outragous, if I leave a bar after midnight, and feel like a bite to eat, or if I'm with a smoker who wants to buy a pack of cigs, we have to hail a cab to take us to Center City or Aramingo. I would completely drop my Wawa or chain push if Palm Tree or anyother convenience store stayed open till 3am on the weekends and was open Sundays.

Neighbor

IP: 69.249.101.63

Feb 1st, 2007 - 2:05 PM

Re: ground floor

Problem is, no one whats to live near a place like this were people (probably loaded) are coming and going and making lots of noise at 3 AM. CC you talk about a Martini Bar, something tells me you should be living in Old City or maybe you should open one here.

I'm just sayin'...

IP: 64.80.198.10

Feb 1st, 2007 - 2:20 PM

Re: ground floor

here's an idea:

Instead of moaning about this on the internet, why don't you go to the planning board meetings, and voice your concerns to REAL PEOPLE. You may not have noticed this, but I've never seen ordinances, contracts, bills or anything else signed with an IP address. No one cares what is said on here in an official capacity.

In all of the meetings I've ever been to around the Delaware Valley, you show up, you listen, and you're given a chance to voice your opinion, regardless of who you are or where you live.

If you don't want to see a Rita's there, you'd better get your ass in gear and get to a planning board meeting to say 'no' (if it hasn't already been put into motion). I believe Matt posts on here everyday looking for more people to be active in their community (which does not mean arguing on the internet), so it's not like you have an excuse not to find the meeting place, date, time and agenda.

CC

IP: 148.177.1.212

Feb 1st, 2007 - 2:46 PM

Re: ground floor

Neighbor, people are already doing this all over the neighborhood. There are at least 5 busy bars that stay open until 2am, and people end up walking out of there well after 2. You're telling me plopping a Wawa somewhere on 2nd St. would be more disruptive than the Standard Tap, Duce, Bar Ferdinand, Liberties and 700 Club? Not to mention the crazy traffic and biker clubs roaring down the streets at all hours of the morning.

The other guy has a point about getting involved. However, I think people get quickly discouraged. I've gone to two meetings in the past and it seems like the NLNA has already made it's mind up about most issues and rules the neighborhood zoning commission with an iron fist. Also, you see from this board how much good getting involved has done for our mail delivery.

DDR

IP: 74.0.115.57

Feb 1st, 2007 - 3:01 PM

Re: ground floor

I have no idea how CC knows how much I frequent neighborhood businesses but I do know I've invested 12+ years in first rent, then a home and, until recently,a business here(Ridiculous increase in rent = Fishtown).

I don't particularly want a 24hr.convenience store popping up behind my house, sorry but that's me. If CC can get WaWa to open a store on the non-residential part of Spring Garden then more power to 'em.

Ironically many of the people who want to make the most drastic changes to the neighborhood will probably pack up and move to Center City, Old City, or the suburbs as their salary increases.

CC

IP: 148.177.1.213

Feb 1st, 2007 - 3:22 PM

Re: ground floor

Wait a minute DDR, you don't even live in NL?! What is all this discussion about then? You live in a entirely different neighborhood.

DDR

IP: 74.0.115.57

Feb 1st, 2007 - 3:32 PM

Re: ground floor

No, if it wasn't clear: over the 12+ years I've rented, then bought a home(6 years ago). Had a business here as well, up until last week. I'm here in NL alive and well, thanks. Home and business are separate.

Irene Lambrou

IP: 70.110.196.234

Feb 1st, 2007 - 5:29 PM

Re: ground floor

just a few words on the Rita's question, and the allegedly "iron-fisted" NLNA zoning committee.

The committee hears presentations on proposed variances and the neighbors' responses. After open discussion, we make recommendations regarding the project to the NLNA Board, who can ratify our recommendation or not. The ZBA of the City then has the final word. Every step of our process is open to the public, as are the City ZBA hearings. NLNA ZC meetings take place the last Monday (and often Tuesday) of each month, and are listed on this message board and on the NLNA email list. This week we heard presentations and neighbors' input on 10 projects, from 7 to 11PM on Monday night and 7PM until midnight on Tuesday night. We do this for free. There is never a "predetermined" outcome.

We made no final recommendation on Rita's at Monday's meeting. We decided we need more information from the applicant. So it will likely come before us again. CC, I invite you to get a 3rd meeting under your belt and express your opinions about Rita's or any other project, as well as our process. I'd be happy to meet you and talk about your concerns.

Folks might find it interesting that the franchisee and the corp rep for Rita's made it clear that, IF their application is approved for 2nd and Brown, they will work with the NLNA Urban Design subcommittee to tailor the appearance of the store for this neighborhood.

NLNA is always looking for interested volunteers who want a say in the development of our neighborhood. There are many committees that need help. Stay informed and join the email list by writing to President of the Board, Jennifer Lewis at jennifer.lewis@nlna.org, or feel free to write to me.

Irene Lambrou
Board Member, NLNA
Member, Zoning Committee

neighbor

IP: 72.78.219.72

Feb 1st, 2007 - 6:19 PM

Re: ground floor

No amount of 'tailoring' will make Rita's palatable to anyone with any taste. Not in NLs, not anywhere. If Rita's is allowed to estiblish itself here, it will be the downfall of this neighborhood. Indeed, some argue the downfall is already underway, thanks to absurd real estate price appreciation and the flood of new rental units that have provoked an invasion by the type of folk that patronize Cescaphe and North Bowl. These establishments have formed a 'Jersey' crescent that extends all the way to Finnegan's Wake (Mr. Joyce turns in his grave). The folks at Standard showed just how business savy they are by hedging their bets and opening JBs in Fishtown. Oh, and who do you think will populate all the new, empty retail space in the Tower buildings? Lots of trendy, independently-owned retailers that won't be charged any rent for a few years? Think again. Developers have pumped, and are still pumping a lot of speculative money into NLs, and they want a return on investment. Now. A sad turn of events for NLs, but a new beginning for Fishtown and other areas -- perhaps.

I'm just sayin'...

IP: 64.80.198.10

Feb 2nd, 2007 - 9:02 AM

Re: ground floor

There's that capitalism thing, getting in the way again. Making money? The nerve!

neighbor

IP: 171.159.192.10

Feb 2nd, 2007 - 11:35 AM

Re: ground floor

Can't wait 'til a 'tailored' Starbucks comes to NLs!

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Author	Comment
sweet potato fries IP: 151.197.209.240 Jan 27, 07 - 2:00 PM	ground floor I miss the coffee shop at 2nd and Poplar (ground floor?). Does anyone know if it will be reopening?
Cheesesteak the Impaler IP: 141.158.243.98 Jan 27th, 2007 - 3:10 PM	Re: ground floor Since when?!?
MistaT IP: 63.250.179.198 Jan 29th, 2007 - 12:31 PM	Re: ground floor its been closed a week and half roughly. sign says they're getting some thing together but doenst have a reopen date.
weak stuff IP: 65.78.36.17 Jan 29th, 2007 - 12:36 PM	Re: ground floor place was garbage sad to see another nl store bite the dust, come on rita's!!
czarjosh IP: 68.162.66.201 Jan 29th, 2007 - 4:11 PM	Re: ground floor There is a sign in the window that says it is for sale. Email: joshuaferris@gmail.com Website: http://www.joshferris.com
say it ain't so! IP: 75.199.226.108 Jan 29th, 2007 - 7:51 PM	Re: ground floor i hope that it's not true! it was never about the coffee. it was more about a great outdoor hangout at the best intersection in town. warm summer nights, music in the air, crowds milling about outside the tap...oh the memories... maybe that was part of the problem - too many folks just hanging out, and not enough buying coffee (guilty as charged).
mistaT IP: 69.253.247.175 Jan 29th, 2007 - 9:09 PM	Re: ground floor NO!!!! Ground Floor was awesome!...some of the best vibes in the hood...I truly hope someone good takes over that space cause keeping that open space open, music filled, and green is necessary in my opinion. Rita's is awful and a crappily run chain. don't let that touch this hood.
Cheesesteak the Impaler IP: 68.163.43.155 Jan 29th, 2007 - 10:41 PM	Re: ground floor That space would be great for a Copagiro (can't spell ... you know the Gellato places in Center City) ... if the Foodery across the street didn't have their mini-franchise already. Not to incur MistahT's pity, but I wouldn't mind a Rita's. Then again, aren't a lot of them only open seasonally anyway?
Dylan IP: 68.46.183.51 Jan 29th, 2007 - 11:30 PM	Re: ground floor I don't really have a problem with a Rita's coming to the neighborhood, but that corner deserves something much better.
JM IP: 68.32.203.155 Jan 30th, 2007 - 12:25 AM	Re: ground floor From RitasIce.com: Store must be allowed to close during the off-season (typically mid-October through mid-March). Trademark backlit awnings and dome signs preferred. Ideally, the site will have clearly visible parking in excess of 20 spaces. Nontraditional sites include: – Street-front stores – Kiosks and in-line mall locations – Boardwalk locations – Airports – Theme parks Email: editor@northernliberties.org
Kevbo IP: 12.111.212.179 Jan 30th, 2007 - 10:51 AM	Re: ground floor just shameful. So I guess a Rita's (which have no place her whatsoever) will use that great side yard for parking and we'll lose another gem of the neighborhood. And the bright red and white awnings? Didn't we have enough with the CREI sign blaring like the sun all night? Party at the moon tower!
Brita IP: 65.202.14.66 Jan 30th, 2007 - 12:04 PM	Re: ground floor Just as an FYI - the proposal for Rita's lists the address as 800 N. 2nd Street which is the corner of 2nd and Brown. Ground Floor was at the corner of 2nd and Poplar.
just me,,, IP: 68.32.207.203 Jan 30th, 2007 - 12:23 PM	Re: ground floor word has it that it has been sold by the owner and will probably reopen very soon.... hopefully it will remail the Ground Floor.... Email: mail@benleuner.com
MistaT IP: 63.250.179.198 Jan 30th, 2007 - 2:28 PM	Re: ground floor have my fingers crossed...I hope that the old owner sells it to the two cute girls who worked mornings...the dark haired one especially, great way to wake up
E IP: 209.204.103.6 Jan 30th, 2007 - 4:24 PM	Re: ground floor that's too bad, I like the dog. Email: peircecollege2006@yahoo.com
kelley IP: 68.32.224.145 Jan 30th, 2007 - 7:49 PM	Re: ground floor i tried to like that place, but each and every time i went in, the coffee was lukewarm and just ok tasting, and i never felt welcome there. i liked the pond, and i LOVE one shot. also, higher grounds isn't bad, but i rarely go because it's not as close to my building. anyway, can't say i'm sad to see ground floor go. as much as i love rita's in the summer, it doesn't belong there. i too would love to see another green, non-chain establishment on that corner. but this time, one that is non-cliquey with a consistantly quality product.
weak stuff IP: 65.78.36.17 Jan 30th, 2007 - 8:58 PM	Re: ground floor if the owner was there more maybe it would still be open, she was there less and less and the product was so inconsistent bad business practice.
damonabnormal IP: 68.34.175.76 Jan 30th, 2007 - 9:50 PM	Re: ground floor hello?! people... Rita's is proposed for 2nd & BROWN, not Poplar!!! Rant aside I will really miss the GF and the owner as she was cool (as was her dog) but I agree about the service when she was not around. The tall dude was great but everyone else there was more into their friends if ya knowwhatimean. Hopefully whomever bought it will keept it as it is but will improve it a bit. Move night, hanging in the corner park, mexican mocha's, all that was good...
fishter IP: 71.242.251.250 Jan 31st, 2007 - 11:31 AM	Re: ground floor Hey at least Rita's was started by a Philly guy. I know its been sold to a corp. entity, but its still better than a starbucks......
neighbor IP: 171.159.192.10 Jan 31st, 2007 - 2:15 PM	Re: ground floor IF RITA'S COMES TO NL'S THAT WILL BE THE STRAW THE CAMEL'S BACK. I'LL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO GO INTO VOLUNTARY EXILE TO FISHTOWN OR BELLA VISTA, LIKE HUNDREDS OF FORMER NL'S RESIDENTS HAVE DONE IN THE PAST YEAR. Seriously, it seems all the new, exciting cafes, restaurants and pubs are opening in places like the Gayborhood, North Broad, etc. For those who've become complacent about NL's recent turnaround and are clamoring for a Rita's American Water Ice (there's no such thing as 'water ice' in Italy), a word of caution: home prices CAN go down. Bring in Rita's and a Wawa and Olive Garden (Look Out, Sovalo!) won't be far behind.
E - A - G - L - E - S! IP: 38.98.201.247 Jan 31st, 2007 - 2:26 PM	Re: ground floor I'd settle for a Trader Joes... Ritas? Ugh. Send me to the suburbs.
CC IP: 148.177.1.212 Jan 31st, 2007 - 3:06 PM	Re: ground floor you people are so name concious! And you call yourselves Hipsters. Shame on you. Ritas is going to be a store that sells delicious flavored ice that is refreshing in the summer months. What's so bad about that. And who the hell cares if it's called Rita's or Tim's or the Famous NL family-owned local, water ice stand?
DDR IP: 74.0.115.57 Jan 31st, 2007 - 3:29 PM	Re: ground floor Americans in general are name-conscious and that can work for or against a given business. Why do so many people go to the Olive Garden, for example, when the food sucks and is an affront to Italian sensibility altogether, while there are many good privately-owned Italian restaurants? Same thing with McDonald's - the food is garbage and hamburgers can't be found elsewhere? Just because a business has an identifiable name makes it more appealing/"safe"(there's that word again) to many consumers, but not because it's better. So just call what's going on here a reverse in the trend. If you have two comparable businesses, one a chain, the other privately owned, I'm going to choose the one privately owned because I'm tired of everything being completely homogenized. Not to mention the small business needs your patronage more. Do you guys remember South Street years ago? Almost all unique little businesses(South St.Souvlaki is STILL there!) now it's not much different than an open-air mall. Same for Main St. Manayunk. I hate to say it, but you start letting franchises in it becomes an avalanche. Capogiro - absolutely! Rita's - just plain disappointing and generic. Quite honestly I wouldn't be interested in paying for artificially-colored ice even in August.
Ed Teach IP: 38.102.198.26 Jan 31st, 2007 - 3:42 PM	Re: ground floor Passyunk Square/Italian Mkt is the new hotspot....with Passyunk Ave. on the rise - new shops, pubs, restaurants, coffee shops and cafes, it's booming 10x faster than NL did in 10 years (unless you're counting condo development). And the best part is that it's all residential and there isn't any room for condos.
weak coffee IP: 65.78.36.17 Jan 31st, 2007 - 3:55 PM	Re: ground floor thought this was a coffee shop closing thread?
Libby IP: 66.227.95.240 Feb 1st, 2007 - 10:39 AM	Re: ground floor Ground floor was a wonderful little place. Do you remember the summer when they played the first season of Twin Peaks on Thursday nights? Amazing. and as for Rita's, how true is that? I've been looking to cease renting and buy but if we turn that road I may reconsider. first rita's, next thing you know it'll be starbucks, city blue and all the other commercial crap that populates south street.
CC IP: 148.177.1.213 Feb 1st, 2007 - 11:35 AM	Re: ground floor There is some truth to chains being predictable and flashy, but they aren't all bad. First of all, chains provide greater convenience than do corner stores (they seldom run out of stock, their hours cator to the customer rather than the owner, and their goods are usually more affordable). This is why more people go to McDonalds than a corner store for a burger. You spend 2 bucks and 5 minutes and you've got dinner. Second, most chains are franchised, meaning, if Joe Blow buys the rights from corporate to open a Wawa in NL, he can alter the appearance and presentation to meet the style of the neighborhood and ultimately increase profits. And, finally, chains will employ more NL residents. A 24-hour Wawa will employ three or four shifts of anywhere from 3 to 8 employees a shift. that's a lot of jobs compared to a family-run market that emloyees a husband, wife and maybe local teenager part time. I think there can be a compromise of local corner stores and chains. Urban neighborhoods in this day and age of stressed, super-busy people need some convenient, affordable, quick stops to thrive. Not everyone is an artist who can take an hour break at 2pm and walk to the local coffee shop for a relaxed lunch.
DDR IP: 74.0.115.57 Feb 1st, 2007 - 11:54 AM	Re: ground floor You love WaWa so much CC!! And you're entitled to...but why are they better than say a Palm Tree Market? They've been a great addition to the neighborhood even if they're not open super-late. Also, why do people move into a neighborhood only to change/alter/criticize it's inherent character? Why not live in a place where those things already exist?
KR IP: 130.91.60.197 Feb 1st, 2007 - 12:14 PM	Re: ground floor Great post DDR! I moved here because I love the area as is. Palm Tree is a big part of that. They have much higher quality food than Wawa, and if they run out of something, they have something comparable. Who cares about never ending stock of low quality? If I need something later, it's not very hard to hop in the car to hit one of the gas stations. I'd rather not have this area become a full out chain place, it ruins the unique feel and makes it just like everywhere else.
CC IP: 148.177.1.212 Feb 1st, 2007 - 1:55 PM	Re: ground floor What, we're not allowed to provide our input on how we think the neighborhood could improve? Who said I don't like it here? I simply think a chain store, like a Wawa would be a huge addition to NL. I love Palm Tree and go there at least three times a week after I leave the gym (which I also like). In fact, I probably patranize more NL neighborhood eateries, shops, bars and business than you do DDR. However, if I want a cup of coffee and a breakfast sandwich on a Sunday morning, I have to get in my car and drive out of our neighborhood. That is totally ridiculous for a supposed vibrant urban community. It also hurts NLs continued growth and improvement efforts.
CC IP: 148.177.1.212 Feb 1st, 2007 - 2:01 PM	Re: ground floor Or, even more outragous, if I leave a bar after midnight, and feel like a bite to eat, or if I'm with a smoker who wants to buy a pack of cigs, we have to hail a cab to take us to Center City or Aramingo. I would completely drop my Wawa or chain push if Palm Tree or anyother convenience store stayed open till 3am on the weekends and was open Sundays.
Neighbor IP: 69.249.101.63 Feb 1st, 2007 - 2:05 PM	Re: ground floor Problem is, no one whats to live near a place like this were people (probably loaded) are coming and going and making lots of noise at 3 AM. CC you talk about a Martini Bar, something tells me you should be living in Old City or maybe you should open one here.
I'm just sayin'... IP: 64.80.198.10 Feb 1st, 2007 - 2:20 PM	Re: ground floor here's an idea: Instead of moaning about this on the internet, why don't you go to the planning board meetings, and voice your concerns to REAL PEOPLE. You may not have noticed this, but I've never seen ordinances, contracts, bills or anything else signed with an IP address. No one cares what is said on here in an official capacity. In all of the meetings I've ever been to around the Delaware Valley, you show up, you listen, and you're given a chance to voice your opinion, regardless of who you are or where you live. If you don't want to see a Rita's there, you'd better get your ass in gear and get to a planning board meeting to say 'no' (if it hasn't already been put into motion). I believe Matt posts on here everyday looking for more people to be active in their community (which does not mean arguing on the internet), so it's not like you have an excuse not to find the meeting place, date, time and agenda.
CC IP: 148.177.1.212 Feb 1st, 2007 - 2:46 PM	Re: ground floor Neighbor, people are already doing this all over the neighborhood. There are at least 5 busy bars that stay open until 2am, and people end up walking out of there well after 2. You're telling me plopping a Wawa somewhere on 2nd St. would be more disruptive than the Standard Tap, Duce, Bar Ferdinand, Liberties and 700 Club? Not to mention the crazy traffic and biker clubs roaring down the streets at all hours of the morning. The other guy has a point about getting involved. However, I think people get quickly discouraged. I've gone to two meetings in the past and it seems like the NLNA has already made it's mind up about most issues and rules the neighborhood zoning commission with an iron fist. Also, you see from this board how much good getting involved has done for our mail delivery.
DDR IP: 74.0.115.57 Feb 1st, 2007 - 3:01 PM	Re: ground floor I have no idea how CC knows how much I frequent neighborhood businesses but I do know I've invested 12+ years in first rent, then a home and, until recently,a business here(Ridiculous increase in rent = Fishtown). I don't particularly want a 24hr.convenience store popping up behind my house, sorry but that's me. If CC can get WaWa to open a store on the non-residential part of Spring Garden then more power to 'em. Ironically many of the people who want to make the most drastic changes to the neighborhood will probably pack up and move to Center City, Old City, or the suburbs as their salary increases.
CC IP: 148.177.1.213 Feb 1st, 2007 - 3:22 PM	Re: ground floor Wait a minute DDR, you don't even live in NL?! What is all this discussion about then? You live in a entirely different neighborhood.
DDR IP: 74.0.115.57 Feb 1st, 2007 - 3:32 PM	Re: ground floor No, if it wasn't clear: over the 12+ years I've rented, then bought a home(6 years ago). Had a business here as well, up until last week. I'm here in NL alive and well, thanks. Home and business are separate.
Irene Lambrou IP: 70.110.196.234 Feb 1st, 2007 - 5:29 PM	Re: ground floor just a few words on the Rita's question, and the allegedly "iron-fisted" NLNA zoning committee. The committee hears presentations on proposed variances and the neighbors' responses. After open discussion, we make recommendations regarding the project to the NLNA Board, who can ratify our recommendation or not. The ZBA of the City then has the final word. Every step of our process is open to the public, as are the City ZBA hearings. NLNA ZC meetings take place the last Monday (and often Tuesday) of each month, and are listed on this message board and on the NLNA email list. This week we heard presentations and neighbors' input on 10 projects, from 7 to 11PM on Monday night and 7PM until midnight on Tuesday night. We do this for free. There is never a "predetermined" outcome. We made no final recommendation on Rita's at Monday's meeting. We decided we need more information from the applicant. So it will likely come before us again. CC, I invite you to get a 3rd meeting under your belt and express your opinions about Rita's or any other project, as well as our process. I'd be happy to meet you and talk about your concerns. Folks might find it interesting that the franchisee and the corp rep for Rita's made it clear that, IF their application is approved for 2nd and Brown, they will work with the NLNA Urban Design subcommittee to tailor the appearance of the store for this neighborhood. NLNA is always looking for interested volunteers who want a say in the development of our neighborhood. There are many committees that need help. Stay informed and join the email list by writing to President of the Board, Jennifer Lewis at jennifer.lewis@nlna.org, or feel free to write to me. Irene Lambrou Board Member, NLNA Member, Zoning Committee Email: woodswoman@gmail.com
neighbor IP: 72.78.219.72 Feb 1st, 2007 - 6:19 PM	Re: ground floor No amount of 'tailoring' will make Rita's palatable to anyone with any taste. Not in NLs, not anywhere. If Rita's is allowed to estiblish itself here, it will be the downfall of this neighborhood. Indeed, some argue the downfall is already underway, thanks to absurd real estate price appreciation and the flood of new rental units that have provoked an invasion by the type of folk that patronize Cescaphe and North Bowl. These establishments have formed a 'Jersey' crescent that extends all the way to Finnegan's Wake (Mr. Joyce turns in his grave). The folks at Standard showed just how business savy they are by hedging their bets and opening JBs in Fishtown. Oh, and who do you think will populate all the new, empty retail space in the Tower buildings? Lots of trendy, independently-owned retailers that won't be charged any rent for a few years? Think again. Developers have pumped, and are still pumping a lot of speculative money into NLs, and they want a return on investment. Now. A sad turn of events for NLs, but a new beginning for Fishtown and other areas -- perhaps.
I'm just sayin'... IP: 64.80.198.10 Feb 2nd, 2007 - 9:02 AM	Re: ground floor There's that capitalism thing, getting in the way again. Making money? The nerve!
neighbor IP: 171.159.192.10 Feb 2nd, 2007 - 11:35 AM	Re: ground floor Can't wait 'til a 'tailored' Starbucks comes to NLs!