NorthernLiberties.org - A Community Bulletin Board - Northern Liberties, Philadelphia

Debbie King

IP: 68.162.123.219

Oct 5, 07 - 11:26 AM

Tuesday Night at Honey's

Bring a bottle of wine, eat fabulous food, meet your neighbors, experience the camaraderie of Northern Liberties and, at the same time, help protect the unique character of our community.

Tuesday (Oct 9) from 5 PM to 10 PM, Honey's Sit 'n Eat at 4th & Fairmount will host the first of a series of Sugar-Free Dinners in and around Northern Liberties to raise money to "Fight to Re-Site the SugarHouse Casino." A portion of all diners' tabs will benefit the NLNA and its challenge to the casino's proposed location -- less than 200 ft from some of our neighbor's homes, and way too close to our schools, playgrounds and churches.

Lo-cal

IP: 69.249.118.222

Oct 7th, 2007 - 11:25 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Bring your friends and family.
This is an unusual opportunity to connect with your neighbors and do something positive for the community.
Everyone talks about what havoc the casino could bring.
Let's savor what we have now.

JM

IP: 128.91.136.54

Oct 8th, 2007 - 8:42 AM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Great idea Debbie... Hope to make it out.

Save Your Neighborhood

Love the NLNA, but...

IP: 69.253.204.119

Oct 8th, 2007 - 7:02 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Is it possible to be in favor of supporting the NLNA if you're not rabidly against the casino? Or if you think it's probably a better idea for our neighborhood representatives to sit down and negotiate a community benefits agreement with them, instead of stubbornly fighting them every step of the way? This "either you're with us or you're against us" position the NLNA is taking sounds a lot like Bush, doesn't it?

sweet potato fries

IP: 151.197.33.4

Oct 8th, 2007 - 9:34 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

The decision not to negotiate a community benefits agreement with SH was the result of a 3-hr meeting that the entire neighborhood was invited to participate in. At the end of the meeting, the folks that were there, roughly 30 neighbors, voted for the NLNA not to participate in talks with the casino.

-jeanne

Mitch Deighan

IP: 151.197.57.241

Oct 9th, 2007 - 12:36 AM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

"Love the NLNA, ...", I agree with your perspective and since the big "problem" some see with SugarHouse is in fact an enormous opportunity, the analogy you describe is a sad commentary on the state of our society.

SugarHouse is NOT a referendum on whether gaming is good or bad or whatever..it is a government-mandated development which we can benefit from. The site is locked-in, we've known about it since the EARLY 90's. How come all of these CasiNO's sat on their hands back in the days when opposition to Pennsylvania Casinos might have been possible? How come they now point their fingers at anyone who doesn't conform to their delusional mentality?

You got me on that one. Actually, I do have some theories. Lack of proper leadership, at the foremost.

The only question on the table, now, is who is going to represent Northern Liberties at the bargaining table. Someone WILL, and if NLNA wants to take it's ball and run home like an immature child, so be it. But this would be (another) sad waste of an organization whose mission statement is to represent our neighborhood.

Da Douche!

IP: 70.110.198.195

Oct 9th, 2007 - 5:52 AM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

"The decision not to negotiate a community benefits agreement with SH was the result of a 3-hr meeting that the entire neighborhood was invited to participate in. At the end of the meeting, the folks that were there, roughly 30 neighbors, voted for the NLNA not to participate in talks with the casino."

30 people out of a neighborhood of how many neighbors? Are there quorum rules for such binding measures, or at least rules for revisting the issue when it seems obstinacy isn't making any measurable concrete progress? What happens if 60 neighbors show up at the next meeting wanting this motion reversed?

Mitch Deighan

IP: 151.199.245.96

Oct 9th, 2007 - 6:51 AM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Good questions, but the muck is even deeper...

Recently, NLNA gave as its reason for not participating in negotiations for a Community Benefits Agreement:
"We were not authorized by our membership to attend."

Did the "membership" ever authorize the NLNA board to sign onto the multi-neighborhood coalition which thinks it's pulling the strings on a development within OUR sovereign borders?

The SugarHouse site is in NORTHERN LIBERTIES and FISHTOWN...
NOT Society Hill or any other neighborhood.

This is OUR massive project to benefit from, we don't have to cow-tow to any other neighborhood to strike a deal.

Shopkeeper

IP: 68.34.175.48

Oct 9th, 2007 - 11:51 AM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

This is why I can't join the NL business organization. I feel that Sugarhouse could benefit NL businesses, but the NL business organization is part of the NLNA and won't even consider inviting Sugarhouse to join. If an independent business group for the neighborhood is created, I'd be likelier to get involved.

Another shopkeeper

IP: 69.249.101.63

Oct 9th, 2007 - 12:34 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Shopkeeper, as a fellow business owner I couldn't agree more with you about the casino issue. However I think you're wrong about the business association being in any way involved with the NLNA and the anti casino movement. Sure some people will be involved in both. But to the best my knowledge the NLBA is a total separate thing. Why not stop by a meeting and find out for sure. I'm sure you'd be welcome. One other thing that bothers me is the Anti casio posters all over the neighborhood litering our buildings and telephone poles. If you want one in your window or on your building fine, but please, like we don't have enough ghetto garbage everywhere....

Wild Man

IP: 85.195.123.29

Oct 9th, 2007 - 6:03 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Hey Mitch!

I heard that you showed up at the FACT and SugarHouse negotiation ranting and raving about the NLNA and slandering Matt Ruben. Way to go! Even the casino supporters think your behavior is bizarre.

3rd&Brown

IP: 209.64.25.3

Oct 9th, 2007 - 7:14 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

I agree with Mitch.

I support a lot of what the NLNA does, but I do not support it with respect to its position on the casinos. I also resent the fact that the NLNA is using the general member list-serv to communicate casiNO's agenda. The NLNA list-serv should be used to inform us of general run of the mill things...clean ups, yard sales, bake sales, flower sales, community meetings, etc. I especially loathe the '"click here" and fax your representative about how much you vehemently hate the casinos' emails we get from the NLNA.

Those who are anti-casino should subscribe and communicate via a separate list serv, specific to the casiNO agenda. They shouldn't be able to hi-jack general neighborhood resources for their own agenda.

On another note, Philly Business Journal printed yet another article about how the Navy Yard is blazing a trail of development, attracting high paying jobs from near and far to a previously underused area of the city. It is a shame that casiNO says on one hand they are opposed to waterfront casinos because of the affect of development on our ports, and then propose an alternative site (at the Navy Yard) which will do far more harm to the expansion of port related jobs than any site north of Spring Garden Street.

3rd&Brown

IP: 209.64.25.3

Oct 9th, 2007 - 7:17 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Shopkeeper-

I'd encourage you to get involved with the Business Association. I know a number of its members; many disagree with the NLNA on many issues individually and collectively.

One example: the NLNA regularly opposes dense residential development, for a variety of reasons, while business owners (esp on 2nd St) are clamoring for more density (customers).

The only way you can affect the dialog is by getting involved.

Mitch Deighan

IP: 68.46.98.165

Oct 9th, 2007 - 7:24 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

wild "man", I've never been to a SugarHouse negotiation and Matt Ruben speaks for himself.

Nina de Costa

IP: 71.226.208.93

Oct 9th, 2007 - 8:02 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Dear shopkeeper,
You are very missinformed, the NLBOA is not affiliated with the NLNA. We are a separate entity and a separate board of directors. At this point, Sugarhouse is an abstract entity and does not exist as a NL business. Upon a ribbon cutting, ground breaking business, we, as the NL Business Owners Association will welcome SugarHouse as we would any NL Business. First, you have to exist as a live entity. Todate, that it is not the case. NL businesses are split on their position on Casinos. And, it is not our desire to involve ourselves on the emotion and the politics that currently present themselves. Therefore, until SugarHouse has broken ground and is ready to open their doors as a live business, we have chosen to remain neutral. As an Entity that represents the interest of the business community it is unfair of us to sway opinion one way or another. So, we are waiting to have the cards fall and play out our hand. When SugarHouse is here, we will be there to embrace them as a vibrant NL business.
Further more, if you, as a resident or business are in favor of the casino site, come and voice your opinion. Todate, no one has shown up at any neighborhood meeting or, has spent time or energy to oppose the vote of the neighborhood. If you are not part of the solution, you are the problem. Those who show up to vote, get their vote counted. Those you stay at home and don't participate in the process, do not have a voice. That's the way the world works. If you are passionate about your feelings...express them so your voices will be heard!

Nina de Costa

IP: 71.226.208.93

Oct 9th, 2007 - 8:08 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

I sincerely apologize to "Shopkeeper". I inadvertenly adressed you by mistake.

Nina de Costa

IP: 71.226.208.93

Oct 9th, 2007 - 8:13 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Oops, I take that back...I was ahead of myself and, after reviewing the other responses. I did mean to address "ShopKeeper". Please try to keep your responses to a minimum for my irratic behavior. I read too quickly through these posts and lost track of myself. Yes, I realize that I have just opened myself up to "board slander", but it was my bad!

Nina de Costa

IP: 71.226.208.93

Oct 9th, 2007 - 10:12 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

I think a lot of folks are missing the point of this battle..it is not so much about casinos as it is due process. Our rights have been violated by our corrupt government...backroom meetings, secret handshakes and the like. All of this could have been avoided had the good people of Philadelphia been part of the process and, had been included and represented relative to the site of the casinos in our riverfront communities. Not only were we lied to, cheated, and excluded from the process, we have been made pawns in this game. The riverfront communities spent many, many hours listening to the prospective casinos while they ran their dog and pony shows to each community. At that point, we knew casinos were coming and we resolved ourselves to the fact, however, we were fooled into thinking that we had a say as to where the best site would have been. We listened and we voted on the Pinacle site, however, to our surprise, we were ignored and rail roaded into 2 casino sites, neither of which the riverfront communities approved.
Neither the City nor big developers should decide what is best for our neighborhoods. Why didnt they just put it to a ballot vote and let majority rule? Because they don't care about anything except lining their own pockets at our expense. There are many political figures who stand to personally gain relative to the sites that have been chosen by them. Wait until you see our neighborhood streets jammed with traffic due to PennDots 95 construction, closing off Girard Avenue ramps, the Casino construction and eventual opening on Columbus Blvd. If you think it takes long to get to Home Depot now, just wait and see. Also, we created a master plan for developing the riverfront, however, it was ignored. All of the great riverfront cities in the country have managed very well without a casino.
Just as an FYI..I am not anti-casino, I am anti-site. I happen to dabble a bit myself at blackjack, however, not 2+ blocks from my front door. Also, the negotiating table has nothing to offer except what they must do to operate in our communities. I ask you, what is a million dollars a year split between neighborhoods, its chump change? That won't even get our school system in the black. Do you really think the slot players are going to spend money in Northern Liberties, Fishtown, Society Hill, Queens Village or South Philly? Slots are frequented by low income folks not high rollers. There is no disposable income coming to our neighborhoods. Casinos are built to keep people in the casinos not outside. Also, the low income jobs that are generated could never afford the rents or homes in our neighborhoods.

Jordan

IP: 151.197.203.175

Oct 9th, 2007 - 10:43 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

Regardless of your stance on the casinos, Honey's food quality and service still sets the bar for everyone else.

Good times had by all tonight.

Jordan

IP: 151.197.203.175

Oct 9th, 2007 - 10:52 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

For the record, I agree with everything Nina said.

It's not the casinos, per se... it's the way they went about it. It's the horrible locations. It's the fact that us residents are being governed by large corporations instead of a democracy.

Further, no one has demonstrated to me why these casinos are going to be good for our community. All I see is an increase in crime, traffic, clutter, and poverty... all while lowering disposable income.

There is a reason these large corporations want these things here so badly. And it isn't for your benefit...

Mitch Deighan

IP: 141.158.248.123

Oct 10th, 2007 - 2:09 AM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

If SugarHouse were a Target, then we'd benefit. Some residents might buy socks and drugs, pet food and knick knacks.

With SugarHouse being a State mandated mega-project, we all get stuff that will add to the public domain and social services.

A Target or benign condo-tower project could and would never benefit the needs of our community as strongly as this development.

NLNA should think in terms of having a direct say in how the community benefit fund will be distributed.

Jordan

IP: 151.197.203.175

Oct 10th, 2007 - 8:32 AM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

But Sugarhouse is not a a Target because they're not producing anything. A casino is a place where people drop large amounts of disposable (and often not disposable) money and get nothing in return.

Further, while some people gamble responsibly, others dump their rent money on the slim chance they might get lucky, not realizing that that chance is 1/10000. Once they've gambled away the rent, then they have to take slightly more desperate measures to both pay the rent and get the money for what they needed in the first place.

Bottom line: casinos contribute nothing to the community except problems. Having them so close to a residential area is absurd. Not allowing the community to have any input over them is practically criminal.

3rd&Brown

IP: 209.64.25.3

Oct 10th, 2007 - 9:44 AM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

The community has the opportunity to provide input, but is refusing to do so.

Anyone who has been in the Philadelphia region for the past 30 years knew that this would eventually happen. Part of the reason why no land is developed on the Waterfront is because every developer was banking the land with the hope of getting a riverboat license. For god's sake, we should at least be happy these things have the potential to become full-blown casinos, and not ridiculous riverboats, like they have in Gary Indiana.

Personally, I will benefit tremendously. Casino revenues will lower my wage tax 10% and likely generate far more jobs (both directly and as a result of tax cuts) than any Target or condo tower, so yes, the casinos will most certainly be producing benefits for Philadelphia and this neighborhood.

On another note, I drive past Penn Treaty Park every day on the way to work. Right next to the Casino site. I never see anybody there. Do all of you take advantage of that little gem? If the waterfront were so accessible and convenient to the neighborhood, it would be packed, like say, Orianna Hill or Liberty Lands, right?

And...there is still casiNO trash from the last protest staged at the derelict gas station at Frankford and Delaware. A huge sign that says casiNO. Please clean up after yourselves.

JM

IP: 76.99.22.64

Oct 16th, 2007 - 8:54 PM

Wednesday At Ortlieb's

Tomorrow Night At Ortlieb's

Kent

IP: 72.92.119.32

Oct 16th, 2007 - 9:47 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

3rd&Brown> How much, percentage-wise, will your total tax burden be lowered by decreasing the wage tax by this glorious 10%?

Wings of Love

IP: 193.200.150.26

Oct 16th, 2007 - 10:16 PM

Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's

I have lived in the city for 30 years and I never could have imagined that the politicians would do anything so stupid as try to put two casinos on the waterfront so close to people's homes, especially when these neighborhoods were growing and thriving and attracting new businesses and young families.
It doesn't make any sense. . .

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Author	Comment
Debbie King IP: 68.162.123.219 Oct 5, 07 - 11:26 AM	Tuesday Night at Honey's Bring a bottle of wine, eat fabulous food, meet your neighbors, experience the camaraderie of Northern Liberties and, at the same time, help protect the unique character of our community. Tuesday (Oct 9) from 5 PM to 10 PM, Honey's Sit 'n Eat at 4th & Fairmount will host the first of a series of Sugar-Free Dinners in and around Northern Liberties to raise money to "Fight to Re-Site the SugarHouse Casino." A portion of all diners' tabs will benefit the NLNA and its challenge to the casino's proposed location -- less than 200 ft from some of our neighbor's homes, and way too close to our schools, playgrounds and churches. Email: nlnaking@yahoo.com
Lo-cal IP: 69.249.118.222 Oct 7th, 2007 - 11:25 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Bring your friends and family. This is an unusual opportunity to connect with your neighbors and do something positive for the community. Everyone talks about what havoc the casino could bring. Let's savor what we have now.
JM IP: 128.91.136.54 Oct 8th, 2007 - 8:42 AM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Great idea Debbie... Hope to make it out. Email: editor@northernliberties.org
Love the NLNA, but... IP: 69.253.204.119 Oct 8th, 2007 - 7:02 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Is it possible to be in favor of supporting the NLNA if you're not rabidly against the casino? Or if you think it's probably a better idea for our neighborhood representatives to sit down and negotiate a community benefits agreement with them, instead of stubbornly fighting them every step of the way? This "either you're with us or you're against us" position the NLNA is taking sounds a lot like Bush, doesn't it?
sweet potato fries IP: 151.197.33.4 Oct 8th, 2007 - 9:34 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's The decision not to negotiate a community benefits agreement with SH was the result of a 3-hr meeting that the entire neighborhood was invited to participate in. At the end of the meeting, the folks that were there, roughly 30 neighbors, voted for the NLNA not to participate in talks with the casino. -jeanne
Mitch Deighan IP: 151.197.57.241 Oct 9th, 2007 - 12:36 AM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's "Love the NLNA, ...", I agree with your perspective and since the big "problem" some see with SugarHouse is in fact an enormous opportunity, the analogy you describe is a sad commentary on the state of our society. SugarHouse is NOT a referendum on whether gaming is good or bad or whatever..it is a government-mandated development which we can benefit from. The site is locked-in, we've known about it since the EARLY 90's. How come all of these CasiNO's sat on their hands back in the days when opposition to Pennsylvania Casinos might have been possible? How come they now point their fingers at anyone who doesn't conform to their delusional mentality? You got me on that one. Actually, I do have some theories. Lack of proper leadership, at the foremost. The only question on the table, now, is who is going to represent Northern Liberties at the bargaining table. Someone WILL, and if NLNA wants to take it's ball and run home like an immature child, so be it. But this would be (another) sad waste of an organization whose mission statement is to represent our neighborhood. Email: mitch.deighan@verizon.net
Da Douche! IP: 70.110.198.195 Oct 9th, 2007 - 5:52 AM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's "The decision not to negotiate a community benefits agreement with SH was the result of a 3-hr meeting that the entire neighborhood was invited to participate in. At the end of the meeting, the folks that were there, roughly 30 neighbors, voted for the NLNA not to participate in talks with the casino." 30 people out of a neighborhood of how many neighbors? Are there quorum rules for such binding measures, or at least rules for revisting the issue when it seems obstinacy isn't making any measurable concrete progress? What happens if 60 neighbors show up at the next meeting wanting this motion reversed?
Mitch Deighan IP: 151.199.245.96 Oct 9th, 2007 - 6:51 AM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Good questions, but the muck is even deeper... Recently, NLNA gave as its reason for not participating in negotiations for a Community Benefits Agreement: "We were not authorized by our membership to attend." Did the "membership" ever authorize the NLNA board to sign onto the multi-neighborhood coalition which thinks it's pulling the strings on a development within OUR sovereign borders? The SugarHouse site is in NORTHERN LIBERTIES and FISHTOWN... NOT Society Hill or any other neighborhood. This is OUR massive project to benefit from, we don't have to cow-tow to any other neighborhood to strike a deal. Email: mitch.deighan@verizon.net
Shopkeeper IP: 68.34.175.48 Oct 9th, 2007 - 11:51 AM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's This is why I can't join the NL business organization. I feel that Sugarhouse could benefit NL businesses, but the NL business organization is part of the NLNA and won't even consider inviting Sugarhouse to join. If an independent business group for the neighborhood is created, I'd be likelier to get involved.
Another shopkeeper IP: 69.249.101.63 Oct 9th, 2007 - 12:34 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Shopkeeper, as a fellow business owner I couldn't agree more with you about the casino issue. However I think you're wrong about the business association being in any way involved with the NLNA and the anti casino movement. Sure some people will be involved in both. But to the best my knowledge the NLBA is a total separate thing. Why not stop by a meeting and find out for sure. I'm sure you'd be welcome. One other thing that bothers me is the Anti casio posters all over the neighborhood litering our buildings and telephone poles. If you want one in your window or on your building fine, but please, like we don't have enough ghetto garbage everywhere....
Wild Man IP: 85.195.123.29 Oct 9th, 2007 - 6:03 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Hey Mitch! I heard that you showed up at the FACT and SugarHouse negotiation ranting and raving about the NLNA and slandering Matt Ruben. Way to go! Even the casino supporters think your behavior is bizarre.
3rd&Brown IP: 209.64.25.3 Oct 9th, 2007 - 7:14 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's I agree with Mitch. I support a lot of what the NLNA does, but I do not support it with respect to its position on the casinos. I also resent the fact that the NLNA is using the general member list-serv to communicate casiNO's agenda. The NLNA list-serv should be used to inform us of general run of the mill things...clean ups, yard sales, bake sales, flower sales, community meetings, etc. I especially loathe the '"click here" and fax your representative about how much you vehemently hate the casinos' emails we get from the NLNA. Those who are anti-casino should subscribe and communicate via a separate list serv, specific to the casiNO agenda. They shouldn't be able to hi-jack general neighborhood resources for their own agenda. On another note, Philly Business Journal printed yet another article about how the Navy Yard is blazing a trail of development, attracting high paying jobs from near and far to a previously underused area of the city. It is a shame that casiNO says on one hand they are opposed to waterfront casinos because of the affect of development on our ports, and then propose an alternative site (at the Navy Yard) which will do far more harm to the expansion of port related jobs than any site north of Spring Garden Street.
3rd&Brown IP: 209.64.25.3 Oct 9th, 2007 - 7:17 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Shopkeeper- I'd encourage you to get involved with the Business Association. I know a number of its members; many disagree with the NLNA on many issues individually and collectively. One example: the NLNA regularly opposes dense residential development, for a variety of reasons, while business owners (esp on 2nd St) are clamoring for more density (customers). The only way you can affect the dialog is by getting involved.
Mitch Deighan IP: 68.46.98.165 Oct 9th, 2007 - 7:24 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's wild "man", I've never been to a SugarHouse negotiation and Matt Ruben speaks for himself. Email: mitch.deighan@verizon.net
Nina de Costa IP: 71.226.208.93 Oct 9th, 2007 - 8:02 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Dear shopkeeper, You are very missinformed, the NLBOA is not affiliated with the NLNA. We are a separate entity and a separate board of directors. At this point, Sugarhouse is an abstract entity and does not exist as a NL business. Upon a ribbon cutting, ground breaking business, we, as the NL Business Owners Association will welcome SugarHouse as we would any NL Business. First, you have to exist as a live entity. Todate, that it is not the case. NL businesses are split on their position on Casinos. And, it is not our desire to involve ourselves on the emotion and the politics that currently present themselves. Therefore, until SugarHouse has broken ground and is ready to open their doors as a live business, we have chosen to remain neutral. As an Entity that represents the interest of the business community it is unfair of us to sway opinion one way or another. So, we are waiting to have the cards fall and play out our hand. When SugarHouse is here, we will be there to embrace them as a vibrant NL business. Further more, if you, as a resident or business are in favor of the casino site, come and voice your opinion. Todate, no one has shown up at any neighborhood meeting or, has spent time or energy to oppose the vote of the neighborhood. If you are not part of the solution, you are the problem. Those who show up to vote, get their vote counted. Those you stay at home and don't participate in the process, do not have a voice. That's the way the world works. If you are passionate about your feelings...express them so your voices will be heard!
Nina de Costa IP: 71.226.208.93 Oct 9th, 2007 - 8:08 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's I sincerely apologize to "Shopkeeper". I inadvertenly adressed you by mistake.
Nina de Costa IP: 71.226.208.93 Oct 9th, 2007 - 8:13 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Oops, I take that back...I was ahead of myself and, after reviewing the other responses. I did mean to address "ShopKeeper". Please try to keep your responses to a minimum for my irratic behavior. I read too quickly through these posts and lost track of myself. Yes, I realize that I have just opened myself up to "board slander", but it was my bad!
Nina de Costa IP: 71.226.208.93 Oct 9th, 2007 - 10:12 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's I think a lot of folks are missing the point of this battle..it is not so much about casinos as it is due process. Our rights have been violated by our corrupt government...backroom meetings, secret handshakes and the like. All of this could have been avoided had the good people of Philadelphia been part of the process and, had been included and represented relative to the site of the casinos in our riverfront communities. Not only were we lied to, cheated, and excluded from the process, we have been made pawns in this game. The riverfront communities spent many, many hours listening to the prospective casinos while they ran their dog and pony shows to each community. At that point, we knew casinos were coming and we resolved ourselves to the fact, however, we were fooled into thinking that we had a say as to where the best site would have been. We listened and we voted on the Pinacle site, however, to our surprise, we were ignored and rail roaded into 2 casino sites, neither of which the riverfront communities approved. Neither the City nor big developers should decide what is best for our neighborhoods. Why didnt they just put it to a ballot vote and let majority rule? Because they don't care about anything except lining their own pockets at our expense. There are many political figures who stand to personally gain relative to the sites that have been chosen by them. Wait until you see our neighborhood streets jammed with traffic due to PennDots 95 construction, closing off Girard Avenue ramps, the Casino construction and eventual opening on Columbus Blvd. If you think it takes long to get to Home Depot now, just wait and see. Also, we created a master plan for developing the riverfront, however, it was ignored. All of the great riverfront cities in the country have managed very well without a casino. Just as an FYI..I am not anti-casino, I am anti-site. I happen to dabble a bit myself at blackjack, however, not 2+ blocks from my front door. Also, the negotiating table has nothing to offer except what they must do to operate in our communities. I ask you, what is a million dollars a year split between neighborhoods, its chump change? That won't even get our school system in the black. Do you really think the slot players are going to spend money in Northern Liberties, Fishtown, Society Hill, Queens Village or South Philly? Slots are frequented by low income folks not high rollers. There is no disposable income coming to our neighborhoods. Casinos are built to keep people in the casinos not outside. Also, the low income jobs that are generated could never afford the rents or homes in our neighborhoods.
Jordan IP: 151.197.203.175 Oct 9th, 2007 - 10:43 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's Regardless of your stance on the casinos, Honey's food quality and service still sets the bar for everyone else. Good times had by all tonight.
Jordan IP: 151.197.203.175 Oct 9th, 2007 - 10:52 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's For the record, I agree with everything Nina said. It's not the casinos, per se... it's the way they went about it. It's the horrible locations. It's the fact that us residents are being governed by large corporations instead of a democracy. Further, no one has demonstrated to me why these casinos are going to be good for our community. All I see is an increase in crime, traffic, clutter, and poverty... all while lowering disposable income. There is a reason these large corporations want these things here so badly. And it isn't for your benefit...
Mitch Deighan IP: 141.158.248.123 Oct 10th, 2007 - 2:09 AM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's If SugarHouse were a Target, then we'd benefit. Some residents might buy socks and drugs, pet food and knick knacks. With SugarHouse being a State mandated mega-project, we all get stuff that will add to the public domain and social services. A Target or benign condo-tower project could and would never benefit the needs of our community as strongly as this development. NLNA should think in terms of having a direct say in how the community benefit fund will be distributed. Email: mitch.deighan@verizon.net
Jordan IP: 151.197.203.175 Oct 10th, 2007 - 8:32 AM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's But Sugarhouse is not a a Target because they're not producing anything. A casino is a place where people drop large amounts of disposable (and often not disposable) money and get nothing in return. Further, while some people gamble responsibly, others dump their rent money on the slim chance they might get lucky, not realizing that that chance is 1/10000. Once they've gambled away the rent, then they have to take slightly more desperate measures to both pay the rent and get the money for what they needed in the first place. Bottom line: casinos contribute nothing to the community except problems. Having them so close to a residential area is absurd. Not allowing the community to have any input over them is practically criminal.
3rd&Brown IP: 209.64.25.3 Oct 10th, 2007 - 9:44 AM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's The community has the opportunity to provide input, but is refusing to do so. Anyone who has been in the Philadelphia region for the past 30 years knew that this would eventually happen. Part of the reason why no land is developed on the Waterfront is because every developer was banking the land with the hope of getting a riverboat license. For god's sake, we should at least be happy these things have the potential to become full-blown casinos, and not ridiculous riverboats, like they have in Gary Indiana. Personally, I will benefit tremendously. Casino revenues will lower my wage tax 10% and likely generate far more jobs (both directly and as a result of tax cuts) than any Target or condo tower, so yes, the casinos will most certainly be producing benefits for Philadelphia and this neighborhood. On another note, I drive past Penn Treaty Park every day on the way to work. Right next to the Casino site. I never see anybody there. Do all of you take advantage of that little gem? If the waterfront were so accessible and convenient to the neighborhood, it would be packed, like say, Orianna Hill or Liberty Lands, right? And...there is still casiNO trash from the last protest staged at the derelict gas station at Frankford and Delaware. A huge sign that says casiNO. Please clean up after yourselves.
JM IP: 76.99.22.64 Oct 16th, 2007 - 8:54 PM	Wednesday At Ortlieb's Tomorrow Night At Ortlieb's Email: editor@northernliberties.org
Kent IP: 72.92.119.32 Oct 16th, 2007 - 9:47 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's 3rd&Brown> How much, percentage-wise, will your total tax burden be lowered by decreasing the wage tax by this glorious 10%? Email: kdurham@nyx.net
Wings of Love IP: 193.200.150.26 Oct 16th, 2007 - 10:16 PM	Re: Tuesday Night at Honey's I have lived in the city for 30 years and I never could have imagined that the politicians would do anything so stupid as try to put two casinos on the waterfront so close to people's homes, especially when these neighborhoods were growing and thriving and attracting new businesses and young families. It doesn't make any sense. . .