NorthernLiberties.org - A Community Bulletin Board - Northern Liberties, Philadelphia

Music Critic

IP: 12.76.79.238

May 15, 08 - 9:10 PM

Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

What was with all the Sugar house nuts on 2nd street today , thought there was a wall to keep them in fishtown. Really odd lots of guys who were very agressive, and should have been at work unless that is there job. oh yeah welfare checks don't come out for 2 more weeks right? Wonder who is paying these Trailer park fugitives to disrupt NL

wanderingpriest

IP: 76.99.35.106

May 15th, 2008 - 11:19 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

nobody honked. it was hilarious.

Michael

IP: 192.154.91.225

May 16th, 2008 - 8:52 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Way to keep it classy, Music Critic.

Mitch Deighan

IP: 70.20.232.35

May 16th, 2008 - 6:07 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Sugar House Nuts Larry Freedman and Matt Ruben were out there. Plenty of honking but that's assuming you were listening.

Music Critic

IP: 12.76.80.99

May 16th, 2008 - 10:27 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

They were anti casino as far as I knew mitch, the nuts were pro casino, folks who don't live in Nl from what I can tell. Matt and Larry do live here

Liz R

IP: 151.197.228.203

May 19th, 2008 - 1:22 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

I just received this e-mail from RepOBrien@pahouse.net:

O'Brien responds to pro-casino picketing of his office

Last Thursday, my constituent service office was picketed by a group of pro-casino advocates and members of organized labor, demanding an end to delays on casino construction. While advised that I would be in Boston, seeing my daughter receive her Master’s degree but that I would be available this week to meet with them, they instead chose to protest in my absence.

While the group is called FACT, they refuse to listen to the underlying facts that surround the need for re-siting the Foxwood and Sugarhouse casinos. Put as simply as possible, both these sites represent poor land use, will have a long-term negative effect on the surrounding communities, place an untold strain on infrastructure and need to be moved.

Last week, Representative Bill Keller and I, in conjunction with action by Senator Vincent Fumo, introduced a commonsense approach to re-siting the Philadelphia casinos. The legislation, which was introduced in both the House and Senate, includes long denied community input into site selection, a survey of viable sites and rescinding of the 10-mile limit to open up the area around the airport.

Rest assured that this latest intimidation ploy by the casino operators and their allies will not dampen my resolve to protect the people of the 175th District.

Frank

IP: 12.10.219.37

May 21st, 2008 - 12:28 PM

Re: Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Upper Merion likes plan for a new slots parlor

ttp://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080521_U__Merion_likes_plan_for_a_new_slots_parlor.html

Suburban residents raised hardly a peep of protest yesterday as the state Gaming Control Board held a hearing on a proposal to place 500 slot machines at the Valley Forge Convention Center.

It was quite a contrast to the rabid neighborhood opposition that has greeted efforts to build two slot parlors along the waterfront in Philadelphia.

Frank

IP: 12.10.219.37

May 19th, 2008 - 8:40 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

TABLE GAMES!!!!!!!

Mitch Deighan

IP: 70.20.241.28

May 20th, 2008 - 4:09 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

The press release posted by Liz Reed - from St. Rep. Mike O'Brien - is totally devoid of factual merit, except perhaps his allegation his daughter was going to receive a Master's Degree. After that, in terms of accuracy or merit, his score is zero.

For starters, no one at FACT was informed before the rally that Rep. O'Brien was going to be in Boston. Those in attendance were almost entirely Fishtown residents. Intimidation? Where? Who? Didn't happen.

wanderingpriest

IP: 151.197.42.165

May 20th, 2008 - 3:02 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

a small child kept screaming honk as i rode by on my bike but i dont have a horn and i was terrified. total intimidation

Music Critic

IP: 12.76.88.136

May 20th, 2008 - 6:06 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Mitch your so full of ****. These clown did threaten or harss anyone walking by who did not show the right amount of support. One guy I know almost got in a fight with one of these thugs.

wanderingpriest

IP: 151.197.42.165

May 20th, 2008 - 6:37 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

thugs? I saw mostly overweight middle aged women and the aforementioned kid. I sat and stared at them apathetically for quite a good bit as well and was not harassed in the least.

Mitch Deighan

IP: 141.151.15.117

May 20th, 2008 - 8:54 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Well ya know, residents can and will say anything on this message board so here goes: Music Critic, YOU'RE full of it.. you come on here and lie to advance your stupidic agenda, put your name on the line you spineless moron.

Frank

IP: 12.10.219.37

May 20th, 2008 - 10:39 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Please refrain from the use of the term agenda. Thank you.

Maggie O'Brien

IP: 71.175.145.69

May 21st, 2008 - 12:38 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Music Critic you are sadly mistaken and you represent why the anti casino forces will not win this. Spreading lies and misinformation to advance a cause never works. Sooner or later the truth comes to the surface and then you will put your tail between your legs and go crawl back into your hole.
The people of Fishtown who chose to express their First Amendment right last week are proud, hard working HONEST citizens, it is a shame the same can not be said of you.
Nobody was threatened, nobody was bullied, nobody was intimidated and if Representative O'Brien feels intimidated by a group made up mostly of "middle aged women and a kid" well then he needs to look for a new job.
Your "friend" who was "harassed" is like you--a liar. You have made a total fool of yourself.
Oh and by the way--how do you know when the welfare checks come out? I know a place that will be hiring soon--it is called SUGAR HOUSE.

******

IP: 76.99.32.43

May 21st, 2008 - 7:23 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

which side is paying off vince fumo this week

tastymoog

IP: 76.99.20.106

May 21st, 2008 - 8:08 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

yea, being a waitress or a parking attendant at a slots parlor sounds like a great job... I'm sure those won't be low wage and seasonal at all.

CC

IP: 148.177.1.210

May 21st, 2008 - 8:26 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

You're right, welfare is a much better option, and luckily, it's year-round.

Joe Rafter

IP: 76.99.36.174

May 21st, 2008 - 9:02 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Ilive in N.L. I was outside Mike O'Brian's office. I am for the Sugarhouse casino. I am for the development the Sugarhouse will create. I am for the jobs the Sugarhouse will create. I grew up in Fishtown and I have also identified myself and that is more then I can say for you Music Critic.

4thnP

IP: 76.99.16.77

May 21st, 2008 - 10:15 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Yea...i personally cannot wait for the traffic and other quality of life issues (development at its finest) to come to the 'hood.

If you really think casinos are good for the community, take a trip to AC or Chester and check out the surrounding locale (and, no...I am not talking about margate, nj...take a walk a couple blocks off the strip).

Mitch Deighan

IP: 70.110.180.242

May 21st, 2008 - 10:36 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Even with far narrower streets and traffic lights at every corner, I rarely encounter much of a slow down in the area around the mammoth Pennsylvania Convention Center. Incidentally, the PCC was created at about the same time the two Delaware Avenue casino sites were optioned for potential gaming facilities. Many of the current anti-casino zealots lived in Philly at that time, and did nothing to address their foaming-at-the-mouth concerns until the sites had been chosen and $50,000,000 licensing fees paid, spreading fear and flimsy allegations to create quagmire. Don't tell me the CASINOS are our civic disgrace. This crap about traffic is just that: crap. In this day and age, traffic is a measure of economic vitality and if you think Philadelphia is world-class-stable in that regard, I've got a bridge to sell you but half of it needs a paint job REAL bad.

Brian

IP: 69.253.133.31

May 21st, 2008 - 11:38 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

You're kidding about the lack of traffic around the convention center, right? That area is a nightmare EVERYDAY. Please do an experiment. Start your watch and drive from 6th and Arch to Broad St. on any afternoon. I avoid that area at all costs. So, if you are trying to tell me that level of traffic will be found in my neighborhood, you lost me on the Sugarhouse cause.

I try to remain a mugwump on this issue, but to me it seems rather obvious that, at best, Sugarhouse will be neutral, but in all likelihood, it will be detrimental to Northern Liberties/Fishtown. There will be jobs, but how many of these go to neighborhood residents? (let's be real about that) There will be new businesses, but let's get real about what types of businesses these will be. If you think they will be high-end restaurants or posh nightclubs, you are kidding yourself. They'll be more like check-cashing stores and Spaghetti Warehouses. It's not going to be pretty, and it certainly will take our neighborhoods in a different direction from which they have been striving for decades. That, in itself, is not good.

I think of this situation like inviting to your party a 6'7" 260 lb bounncer who has a reputation of busting up houses and beating up people. You invited him because he promised to bring some nice presents when he arrived. The problem is that you have no control over him when he gets there. And you are shocked to find that he does what he is known to do. And it's then too late to do anything about it. The situation is now out of your control. Was it really worth the risk inviting him? Well, how good were those presents?

(BTW, let's stop calling Sugarhouse a casino since it's a slots parlor - and I don't care what Frank hopes, even if Sugarhouse ever gets table games, it will be too late. It will then be firmly branded a slots parlor. The clientele and satellite neighborhood businesses will not change at that point.)

Mitch Deighan

IP: 70.110.185.77

May 22nd, 2008 - 12:57 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

I drive the 6th to Broad stretch of Arch all the time and have never had to bail out despite the mammoth PCC, despite the far narrower streets. Sometimes an event like the Flower Show slows traffic down. Doesn't bother me a bit and certainly if it bothers you, take another route. Chinatown was afraid the PCC would squash them out, but I've patronized their establishments more than ever, the mammoth PCC notwithstanding.

The PCC was considered to be a behemoth and yet was created right in the heart of the city, and there were plenty of naysayers. Same goes for the great debate in 1984 about whether to allow buildings taller than "Billy Penn's Hat".

Imagine siting a gigantic bridge in a way that the flow enters and exits from areas within 1500 feet of where people live. Tens of thousands of cars, trucks and buses a day, 24 hours a day. Well, it happened and as far as I'm concerned it's one of the greatest bridges on earth, peacefully coexisting despite there being a hard time finding painting contractors who finish the job.

Someone could have made the bouncer analogy back before the bridge was built, and maybe they did.

SugarHouse is miniature in comparison to the PCC and Ben Franklin Bridge and yet the details of concern to the surrounding areas are just as relevant. Meanwhile, the designated civic associations whose turf includes the SugarHouse site have refused to provide representation to address these concerns. Why? Because they've chosen to blame everyone who doesn't agree with them for the fact that they were either too lazy or too stupid to speak out before the State Legislature authorized casinos across Pennsylvania. They "care" so much? Then why did they all sit on their hands when their opinion could have produced results to their supposed liking? I hope they're prepared to pay back the lost tax and wage revenue.

Yeah, "casinos"...as in "Casino Free Philadelphia", "CasiNO". That whole line of lazy stupid crap.

If you want to change the wording, reach out in that direction please.

Jordan

IP: 70.20.226.192

May 22nd, 2008 - 1:15 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

My beef with the casinos is this...

Casinos come equipped with bars, hotels, restaurants, gift shops, and everything else a person needs to stay in there and dump away their money.

Why would that benefit the local economy? Perhaps I'm wrong, but the way I see it going is down is a lot of out-of-towners coming in, staying in the casinos, gambling away their money, going to the pawn shop, gambling away more money, and then driving up Girard Ave to hit 95 and go home.

Seems like a scenario where the casinos will make a lot of money, but the neighborhood will bear the brunt of the negative effects.

But what do I know.

Music Critic

IP: 12.76.80.223

May 22nd, 2008 - 2:37 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Keep repeating your truth and soon even you Sugar house people will think it is true. your protest was not a 100% non-agressive, and if it was intended to be that:One or Two goons need some lessons or leave them behind.check the film that was being taken if you need evidence. you need to keep out of a pedestrians ways and keep your signs out of thier faces. Funny you attack my not posting a name, are yours real? looked them up in the phone book for a laugh....no name matches them....big shock. Think the Casinos will help ...look at AC still a **** hole after 30 years.

Fishtowner

IP: 216.209.33.60

May 22nd, 2008 - 3:00 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Music Critic, Maggie O'Brien is a real person. She used to real involved in Fishtown Neighbors Assoc. Now she heads up Fact. Definitely real.

LilLebowskisUrbanAchievers

IP: 192.91.147.35

May 22nd, 2008 - 8:28 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Beyond the quality of life 'improvements' a slots ****house would bring to our 'hood...you cannot help but notice that Columbus Ave already has traffic issues (i.e. traffic lights are not optimally synchronized for traffic flow, awkward entrances to the highway, limited safe pedestrian crossings for a hi volume road) - will adding a slots parlor act as an impetus to change this? My guess is a resounding NO.

complete overview

IP: 69.253.204.37

May 22nd, 2008 - 8:43 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

It's funny ... Sugarhouse has made it more than clear that they want to work with the community. If you want things to happen such as better traffic lights, more signs, etc. this is something Sugarhouse can accomplish for you. The rally last week, when I walked by, was filled with some union guys and older people (who are insanely intimidating according to "music critic")

In all this, besides not wanting casinos at all, what does everyone want? The casino is coming -they both are. We should start looking to the future and making demands that will benefit the area to our liking.

LilLebowskisUrbanAchievers

IP: 192.91.147.34

May 22nd, 2008 - 9:39 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

A naive question - how have they 'made it clear' - are they willing to make capital investments in infrastructure (beyond the pittance they've agreed to provide the city on a yearly basis)?
Or are they going to 'fund' some sort of study on recommendations/improvements that the city can make and fund independently?

Bottom line - What is the level of ownership the casino is willing to take (truly an honest question)?

Music Critic

IP: 12.76.78.217

May 22nd, 2008 - 11:02 AM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Overview, YES it was the old folks who were agressive

Funny all the people who claim that it will bring an ecnomic boom to Nl and F town dpon't stop to think. What about your property taxes? If the area undergoes this economic mircle it is very possible land values will increase. Thus higher property taxes. I dont know too many who can handle a 2x or 3x jump in that tax. Sure assests may grow but your wages will remain constant. Soon you may not be able to afford Fishtown. Then what? You guys may be killing this place you love so much

Mitch Deighan

IP: 72.81.44.164

May 22nd, 2008 - 12:18 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

These are the questions our civic association should be asking at the Community Benefits Agreement negotiations. SugarHouse is already committed to investing $650,000,000 into their Fishtown/Northern Liberties site, including $15,000,000 for infrastructure improvements to insure nearby neighbors' homes won't flood like they have in the past by expanding the Laurel Street combined sewer. Instead of taking the full tax abatement as authorized by city council, SugarHouse will pay the City close to $67,000,000 over the ten year tax abatement period.

Potts

IP: 68.87.100.242

May 22nd, 2008 - 12:42 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Mitch, what happened in the past with regards to the comment you made about "expanding the Laurel Street combined sewer"? I know I have heard of people having problems with flooding due to the Ikea and other development in that region of South Philly - is this related or is there another series of incidents you are referring to?

Qoute:
These are the questions our civic association should be asking at the Community Benefits Agreement negotiations. SugarHouse is already committed to investing $650,000,000 into their Fishtown/Northern Liberties site, including $15,000,000 for infrastructure improvements to insure nearby neighbors' homes won't flood like they have in the past by expanding the Laurel Street combined sewer. Instead of taking the full tax abatement as authorized by city council, SugarHouse will pay the City close to $67,000,000 over the ten year tax abatement period.

Mitch Deighan

IP: 70.20.239.212

May 22nd, 2008 - 1:05 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Good question..and I hope someone else can provide a more detailed response, but the jist of the situation (which is separate but parallel to flooding problems in neighbors' basements on the south end of Delaware Avenue) amounts to the underground drainage system backing-up at times of heavy rains, thus flooding some residents' basements. SugarHouse intends to bring the system up to modern standards, which would impact favorably on those nearby homes who have endured flooding. The closer homes to the river are among those most directly impacted by drainage issues.

Joe Rafter

IP: 76.99.36.174

May 22nd, 2008 - 10:31 PM

Re: Sugar House supporters in NL...think they must be lost

Phone book? Ha ha

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