The right to Self-determination ceases to exist when others make decisions for us.
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The Terri Schiavo Forum
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 3, 07 - 4:38 PM |
Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
FLORIDA CATHOLIC CONFERENCE COMMENTARY http://www.flacathconf.org/Publications/Commentaries/Comm1290.htm VOLUME 10, NUMBER 3 / December 1990 In Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning Summary of the Estelle Browning decision. The right to "choose or refuse medical treatment" and to make "all medical choices" is part of Florida's constitutional right of privacy. All persons have this right whether competent or incompetent. Any treatment, including life prolonging procedures, can be withdrawn at any time, regardless of terminal illness, imminent death or incapacity. The withdrawal of life prolonging procedures, such as artificial feeding, does not cause death, it only allows death from natural causes. If a patient will die within 4 to 9 days after withdrawal of artificial feeding, then the condition is terminal and death is imminent. A patient who has orally or in writing expressed wishes for future health care can have those wishes implemented by a surrogate without judicial review; and a proxy appointed in writing may make all such decisions unless limited in the writing; in these two cases, any interested party who disagrees with the decision may take the matter to court. Written instructions are prima facie valid, oral ones must be proven by clear and convincing evidence. |
Janice Sanford
 IP: 64.12.116.8 Sep 3rd, 2007 - 5:55 PM |
Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
According to George Felos, legally starving Terri Schiavo to death was “not euthanasia" It was not "assisted suicide." It was "letting nature take its course." Before Browning died, Felos said that his spiritual side picked up on something. He said that Estelle Browning's soul cried out to his soul and asked, "Why am I still here?" Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Thomas Penick, who heard the Browning case, said in a 1988 interview, "What if (Browning) is desperately saying to herself, "God, don't let them find that living will'?" http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10/13/Tampabay/Right_to_die_law_defi.shtml There is a big difference in allowing some one to die naturally and ordering one's feeding to be removed with no attempts to feed them by mouth...... |
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Dee
IP: 64.12.116.8 Sep 3rd, 2007 - 10:49 PM |
Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Terri Schiavo did not die within nine days. There is no comparison to Estelle Browning. Ms Browning had a living will that stated she didn't want to be maintained. She was not healthy and her life expectancy was very limited. She died before the case was ever resolved. The main thing the two had in common is that Felos was involved. |
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James
IP: 172.162.100.235 Sep 4th, 2007 - 9:07 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Yes, I agree. The Browning case was completely different from the Schiavo case in many different ways. I think it was improper to use the Browning case as the controlling factor in the Schiavo case. Browning has a living will and everyone knew what she wanted. In the Schiavo case, there was no credible evidence that she wanted the feeding tube removed. The "uncredible evidence" was made credible by the useless and effortless actions and behavior by lawyer Pamela Campbell. I think Felos was behind the effort to get the Browning case to be the controlling factor in the Schiavo case. By using that case, Felos was able to get Terri into a situation where she had no legal counsel or GAL to protect her interests and rights and to allow Judge Greer to serve that role which was illegal. Felos further railroaded the Schindlers, by getting to accept an attorney (The Schindlers had no money) for free that was ultimately reccomended by Michael Schiavo (indirectly by previous attorney). Felos and others knew Campbell sucked that why she was reccomended to the Schindlers. The Schindler's were also not permitted to use any of Terri's money to advocate for her life while Michael was able use hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire doctors and specialists. This represented a egregious financial inequanty in the 2000 trial. |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 4th, 2007 - 10:02 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
James The Browning case better defined the rights of self-determination for each of us who live in Florida. That is not a negative. George Felso is being villized for winning and clarifing our rights to CHOOSE to be treated or not. What is wrong with that? Terri Schiavo made casual comments to her huband and others that she did not wishes to be kept alive in unrecoverable condition. Michael carried out Terri wish. No he is villized. This has the footprints of a "Witch hunt" by people that call themselves Christian. |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 4th, 2007 - 9:47 AM |
Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
That is George Felos's beliefs. George Felos is a very good lawyer. I don't have to much respect for the legal profession. A quote I use often is "Most Lawyers are legalized thieves and liars." David Gibbs III said some falsehoods and he claims to be a Christian. What is the difference between them? Ms Browning had two living wills and the nursing home she was living in would not honor either one of them. George Felos was ingaged to have Ms. Browning's wishes (her living will to be honored). George Felos fought two years after Ms. Browning passed and won, which the State of Florida as a results rewrite the stattues. He did it legally. Isn't this the correct procedure. During the trail he made a profound statement. If Ms. Browning is in a locked-in condition we are torturing her. One of my biggest questions is: Why was Terri Schiavo the only one that people were trying to force treatment on. There are thousands of individuals across this nation in hospices being let go by their own wishes and I see no protests, no politics, and Randall Terry trying to force treatment on terminal individuals. Why just Terri Schiavo? There is hypocrisy in the air! |
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Dee
IP: 64.12.116.8 Sep 5th, 2007 - 8:48 PM |
Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
For your information, Felos fought for two years but he didn't actually win anything. In 1991 when the Browning case was resolved, the federal government had passed the patient self determination act. http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/102211840.html Felos has been trying to take this massive amount of credit for a resolution that was inevitable due to the federal law being passed. The case also wasn't his to begin with. There are articles posted and referenced that show her origional lawyer was a neighbor James Felos, George's father. |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 9th, 2007 - 8:26 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Florida had to rewrite its statutes because of ruling in the Browning Case. The is why Debbie Bushnell engaged George Felos in the Terri Schiavo Case. The events of the Federal and Florida legislations were happen in parallel. |
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Janice Sanford
IP: 64.12.116.8 Sep 4th, 2007 - 9:24 PM |
Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Excuse me, Walter, but wasn't the Estelle Browning case originally handled by George's father, James G. Felos?And didn't the elder Felos lose the case? Isn't that when George Felos took over? George J. Felos handled the appeal, didn't he? Walter the majority of Floridians are not aware that it is legal to pull the feeding tube from human beings who are neither terminal -or-in the process of actively dying.As more and more American are educated on the facts in the case, the louder the out crys, to stop killing the disabled , will get. I never meet Terri personally but I have talked to her blood family,the Schindlers, on more than a few occasions.Not everyone has a spouse who was working for an attorney who was involved in the Terri Schiavo case.(smile) |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 5th, 2007 - 8:13 AM |
Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
What does my wife working for Felos had to do with anything? I don't understand you remark. |
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Dee
IP: 64.12.116.8 Sep 5th, 2007 - 9:25 PM |
Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
George Felos is a good lawyer which means he can talk the talk. Your wife would be interacting with him on a daily basis with regard to a case that was very important to him. It's obvious that husband and wife exchange information regarding their day, their work and their thoughts on current issues.It's completely understandable that she would be influenced by a good lawyer who would have talked at length about the case in the office. |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 5th, 2007 - 6:56 PM |
Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
There are many patients in hospices across this nation and they and their families know why they are there. So there are many with the knowledge of this procedure. |
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Dee
IP: 64.12.116.8 Sep 5th, 2007 - 8:52 PM |
Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
My goodness, Walter. It sounds as though you're saying the purpose of them being there is to have their lives ended.The purpose of hospice is supposed to be provideing care for those actively in the death process and support for the families. |
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Janice Sanford
IP: 64.12.116.8 Sep 5th, 2007 - 8:12 PM |
Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Have you ever saw the look on the face of a human being under hospice care, when they realize that their loved ones are trying to speed up their dying. Have you ever had a relative who couldn't read beg you for help to get him out from under hospice,and because their spouse wanted them to die, no one was allowed to read to him the paper that hospice[and spouse] had him sign.[I have witnessed how heartless hospice workers are; and some family members are..] My question is how many of the people being starved to death changed their minds and were killed any way? It happen alright! Innocent human beings are tricked into dying, everyday, somewhere in the United States of America. |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 5th, 2007 - 11:17 PM |
Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Yes, I had to let my mother and father go naturally. It is done this way all over the nation. Humans die! Only Terri Schiavo gets media coverage. WHY? Tell me! |
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Janice Sanford
IP: 205.188.116.8 Sep 6th, 2007 - 12:20 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
"Humans die" So because we are born to die-we are born to be killed? Interesting.Both my parents are dead. And I can be thankful for to things: every moment they lived in my life, and that I am not responible for speeding up their deaths. |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 6th, 2007 - 7:51 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
That was your and my choices. There is as you know a point were medicines and the medical profession can not do any thing for the patient. Terri's point was reached several years before 2005. Realization of that point of leting go for the love ones is hard for us. Michael and the Schindlers realization did not come at the same time. Michael could have bailed out at any time, but that was not his character. He was determined to honor Terri's wish of not to live in a unrecoverable condition. Michael fought for "Terri's Wish" in court, legally. The Schindlers' "attempted" to deny Terri's wish. |
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Janice Sanford
IP: 205.188.116.8 Sep 6th, 2007 - 9:05 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Michael Schiavo did everything he could to make sure Terri didn't get better. It's interesting that when the reports started showing Terri was improving slowly[but surely] Michael Schiavo [and his nurse]rushed her off to California to have experimental brain implants put in her brain. Then he never bothered to have follow ups for his disabled wife. It's a fact that brain implants can cause a build up of fluid. |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 6th, 2007 - 11:19 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
MichaelSchiavo is human, he is not a doctor, he is not a lawyer or judge. He did not do anything but try and find someone that could and would help Terri. He was told by doctors that nothing could be done to help Terri condition. He like the Schindlers had troublem excepting those announments for doctors. He was desperate and stresed. To add on top of this he had the world thinking he is evil because of all the libelous and slanderous statements made against him by people who didn't know him and only heard or read hearsay statements. You think Schinders were stressed at both pullings of the feeding tubes. You should have seen or talked Michael. He was a walking zombie, I thought he was going to have be hospitalize. I've have never seen someone in that condition before. All I can say is Michael Schiavo is not a evil person. And talk about a harden soul, Michael need some compassion. I hold nothing against him and believe GOD doesn't also. |
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Janice Sanford
IP: 205.188.116.8 Sep 6th, 2007 - 12:15 PM |
Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Terri was a human being too. Michael Schiavo knows what he is guilty of. The facts in the case speak for themselves. Michael now has to look at his own daughter and think of what he did to another father's daughter out of spite and jealousy. If you expect to get sympathy from this forum for such a human being ,you might want to stay on the Topix Terri Board. We reap what we sow in this life. And I dare say a lot of those who helped put Terri in her grave have much heartache to reap. Compassion is for those who have compassion for the least among us. Sorry, Michael and Jodi both made their own bed of tears. |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 6th, 2007 - 12:27 PM |
Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Janice I missed something, some where Michael acted out of spite and jealousy. I know nothing about spite and jealousy of Mr Shindler Sr. I know of animosity toward Mr. Schinder but not spite and jealousy. Please enlighten me. |
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Walter In FL
IP: 70.127.118.160 Sep 6th, 2007 - 12:51 PM |
Re: Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Janice You didn't finish your sentence. It ended with the preposition "of". What and why was Michael guilty? |
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Janice Sanford
IP: 64.12.116.8 Sep 27th, 2007 - 6:05 PM |
Re: Guardianship of Estelle M. Browning
Back to Re: Guardianship of Estelle Browning http://www.cnsnews.com/pdf/2003/CatholicBishopsInactionOnEuthanasia.pdf Catholic Media Calls on Bishops to defend Terri If Lynch is an example of what the Catholic religion is all about, I'd be ashame to call myself Catholic. I would remove myself from the house of satan[A Church that seeks to bring Heaven its self...........If any Baptist preacher openly supported starving an inocent -disabled I would disassociate myself from all Baptist churches. Strange that there were Catholic Bishops who supported Hitler. And now we have some Bishops in the United States who support those in the American pro-death movement. I personally believe that God is dealing and those who profess to be followers of the cross are living in the testing days..... |
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