The Terri Schiavo Forum

james

IP: 172.135.32.130

Sep 8, 07 - 11:53 AM

Various legal motions from the Schindlers

http://web.archive.org/web/20001027141259/http://www.terrisfight.org/

This the initial appeal of the 2000 death order of Terri Schiavo. It points out many of the flaws in the 2000 trial and emphasizes the numerous conflicts of interest of Michael Schiavo that should have been consider in the 2000. The appeals court refused to consider the facts of the case.

http://www6.miami.edu/ethics/schiavo/Nov_22_2002_Petition_to_remove_MS_as_guardian.html

Pat Anderson's petition to remove Michael as the guardian.

http://judgegeorgegreer.com/docs/petfortherapy082503.htm

In this motion the Schindlers argued that Terri should entitled to 8 weeks of therapy. Judge Greer accused the Schindlers of relitigating the case and denied the petition and therapy.

http://judgegeorgegreer.com/docs/021403appealofdeathorder.doc

Pat Anderson's wonderful appeal of the 2002 death judgement against Terri Schiavo.

http://www.notdeadyet.org/docs/schaivobrief.html

Not Dead Yet's Appeal of the 2002 Trial judgement.

http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/pdf/schiavo.pdf

This appeal highlighted Dr. Cranford's deep seeded bias against disabled people and should have had Dr. Cranfords testimony thrown out.

http://judgegeorgegreer.com/docs/030705appealbrief.pdf

A nearly 50 page legal motion detailing the due process violations against Terri Schiavo.

Here are 2 great articles by Wesley Smith about the Schiavo case:

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=1706

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=1751 - Michael had no authority to act as guardian.

http://www.apfn.org/Schiavo/Motion%20to%20Disqualify%20090503.pdf

Judge George was running around and talking about the case to important people.

http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200503250823.asp

Terri did not get due process.

Walter In FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 8th, 2007 - 3:38 PM

Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Pat Anderson has no credibility.

She threatened Debbie Bushnell.

She stated: "You'll burn in hell" and "Watch your step the same thing that happen to Father Murphy could happen to you."

Now is that a statement of a Christian?

This statement is on file at the Clearwater Police Department and at the Florida Bar.

Dee

IP: 205.188.116.8

Sep 8th, 2007 - 5:00 PM

Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

It was said in the heat of the moment. I would be as concerned or more concerned when someone takes time to expess, given time to consider and edit their statement, that they could cause a plane to crash through mind control just by wondering what it would be like to die.
To me, that shoots down George Felos' credibility!If new age beliefs are about harmony, just how harmonious is it to bring down a plane full of people to satisfy your curiosity?

Walter In FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 8th, 2007 - 5:27 PM

Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Dee

What are you talking about?

Who caused a plane crash by mind control?

No one has mind control, except the TV media.

james

IP: 172.165.4.65

Sep 8th, 2007 - 6:16 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

I believe that is written in George Felos's Book. In it he wrote that was sitting an air plane and wondered what it would be like to die. At the moment the plane momentarly lost control. Felos beleived had some mental control over the air plane.

George Felos was a complete wacko but had very dangerous skill.

I will give Felos credit that Felos's litigation skills were quite good.

However, Felos's personal beliefs were that of a complete wacko.

james

IP: 172.165.4.65

Sep 8th, 2007 - 6:43 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Here is a long narrative by formingly disable woman who attended the 2002 trial:

A young woman named Rus, with Not Dead Yet (NDY), wrote this next part about Tuesday�s trial for Terri�s web site. Just like Terri, Rus was diagnosed as being in a PVS with no chance of recovery. Rus is attending Terri's trial accompanied by her son, who by the way was conceived and born after Rus recovered from her incorrect PVS prognosis. Rus writes:

After lunch, I returned to the courtroom to listen to hours of the husband's attorney, citing previous answer after previous answer given by Dr. William Maxfield about Terri's responsiveness.

Basically, Schiavo's attorney was trying to get Dr. Maxfield to agree with Dr. Ronald Cranford's (Schiavo's doctor) assessment that Terri was not "with it" enough to be allowed to continue living. Dr. Maxfield repeatedly had to tell Schiavo's attorney that the answers he gave were correct but that the attorney has changed the question that he was supposed to be answering.

At one point, Dr. Maxfield chastised Schiavo's attorney with "You're trying to nit-pick the individual points and you can't do that when you are doing a medical diagnosis. You have to look at the whole person."

Another time, the family attorney had to offer to stipulate that Dr. Maxfield was not every kind of doctor there is in existence. Schiavo's attorney seemed to be trying to prove that the physician on the stand was not board certified in every single field of medicine at the same time.

The husband and his attorney are trying to spark fights the size of gnats --- like over the fact that the 'size' of the 1996 and the 2002 CAT scan pictures of Terri do not exactly match.

Terri�s trial began with the court appointed Neurologist, Dr. Peter Bambakidis. His opinion totally contradicted Dr. Hammesfhar and Dr. Maxfield�s findings. After viewing the videotapes of Terri�s examination, Dr. Bambakadis explained to Judge Greer precisely how Terri was not responding to commands. This doctor, from the Cleveland, Ohio area, testified that some of Terri�s responses, although very subtle, had no neurological meaning.

The videotape that undoubtedly illustrated Terri moving her head from left to right - up and down, in response to the examining doctor�s commands was, according to Dr. Bambakidis, only reflex actions.

Dr. Peter Bambakidis told Judge Greer that Terri�s responses offered no indication that she understood any commands or did Terri have any cognizant abilities. He testified that Terri was in a persistent vegetative condition (PVS), adding that there was no treatment available that could possibly help Terri�s condition to improve.

As damming as Dr. Bambarkidis statements sounded concerning Terri�s condition, attorney Pat Anderson was not disturbed. Attorney Anderson skillful cross examination of Dr. Bambarkidis exposed testimony that was loaded with discrepancies, contradictions and bias, all which will have difficulty passing a legal litmus test.

To the legal neophytes in attendance, the most glaring and egregious statement the (neutral) court appointed doctor made was that he had as many as ten contacts with either Michael Schiavo or Schiavo�s attorney since he was appointed by Judge Greer. His most recent contact was a meeting with Schiavo�s attorney only minutes prior to his morning court appearance.

Dr. Bambakidis went on to testify that he never was in contact with attorney Anderson or made any attempt to meet with Terri�s parents.

We have truly been privileged to have Rus and Stacy in attendance at Terri�s trial. Both are members of the "Not Dead Yet" organization. Rus was kind enough to render her version of the events that took place in Friday�s trial.

"Beginning around the hearing lunch break today I began to have this enormous new appetite for more of everything around me...more bites of chocolate, more sips of soda, more talk with Terri's parents, more touch with their supporters, more hugs from my pets and even more sauce on my dinner pasta.

I think it is because (Schiavo�s selected doctor) Dr. Melvin Greer, a Vincent Price look-alike testified today. He came across as so threatening to people with disabilities. He was on the husband's side to boost the argument that Terri is too disabled to live...too disabled to appreciate sustenance, fluid, family, touch or hugs like I was doing today from my wheelchair with all my existing physical deficits.

There were some amazing factual gaps in his knowledge.

For example, he considered the message boards used regularly to assist people who can not speak well as something very rare. Innumerable places where people with cerebral palsy are helped every week refute that. The number of intensive care units who use them with people on ventilators do the same.

He claimed to have never heard of the most famous computerized message board user of all -- Stephen Hawking. I'm sure the message board I used at the onset of my disability would have puzzled him. It was incredibly effective in letting me speak my mind and was made of an old file folder and a used black magic marker. That this might have cost all of fifty cents would have definitely been beyond the realm of possibility in his medical opinion.

The additional possibility that a similar message board could help Terri Schiavo communicate is being totally discounted by this doctor and the others arguing for the discontinuation of her feedings.

The lawyer who has brought these doctors together has said a real litmus test is whether she can put a spoon to her mouth.

That would sure knock physicist Hawking out of the box marked living. Holding a spoon without assistance vs. holding Newton's chair as Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge University....

A few days ago, the Michael Schiavo�s attorney even spontaneously compared Terri to a houseplant who thinks it is not a vegetable...but is one nonetheless.

But, wait there's more...

Dr. Greer does not remember clapping to check Terri's startle response, but he thinks he probably sang "Melancholy Baby" to her.

While being asked to look at video of Terri's interaction with her mother, Greer also had to be asked twice to please look at his monitor. In addition, during this same line of questioning the doctor had to be asked to put his glasses back on so he could see his screen clearly.

Greer talked to the entire court as if we were the world's dumbest first year medical students. This made sense as he admitted counting time on the stand as teaching hours.

The doctor's arrogance to all within his sight was astounding. For example, when the parent's attorney asked about how confident he was in his evaluation of Terri, Greer replied, "My confidence in my evaluation is based on my confidence in my evaluation."

Later when asked if Terri vocalized during examination of her, he said, "She probably did. I didn't notice...I didn't put it in my memory sources."

The hardest part of the day for me was when Dr. Greer said that Terri saying "No," post-injury, meant nothing.

As people with disabilities, we ourselves have to respond to the banality of Dr. Greer's evil by saying "No!" over and over again to that kind of thinking until there is not a single forum left where it has to be said.

Only then will people with disabilities now and in the future be truly safe."

Rus accurately described Dr. Greer�s pompous attitude. However, under cross-examination by attorney Anderson, the doctor was reduced to an ineffective witness. Spontaneous answers were few and far between. In most cases the doctor ruffled through a stack of papers to find a suitable reply to an elementary question.

If you recall, Dr. Hammesfahr and Dr. Bambikidas both verified Terri did not originally suffer from a heart attack and both doctors acknowledged Terri had a neck spinal cord injury the night that Terri had her collapse and was admitted to the hospital. Dr. Greer contradicted their findings.

His memory of Terri�s 30-minute examination was vague, yet he was adamant she was in a persistent vegetative state. The doctor claimed he performed a neurological examination of Terri�s eyes, yet he did not remember the color of her eyes.

Doctor Greer�s prejudice was so extreme it corrupted his common sense answers.

The doctor avoided offering any positive assessment of Terri in any area, regardless how insignificant. Schiavo�s attorney was visibly rattled by the doctor�s testimony.

At one point when Dr. Greer was self-destructing, Schiavo�s attorney stood and called for a court break. Although. Judge Greer had stipulated that all witness were to be available for a full day�s testimony, Schiavo�s attorney requested Judge Greer to prematurely end the session, due to the doctors alleged commitments.

However, the doctor�s testimony ended abruptly when attorney Anderson revealed that Dr. Greer had previously offered his expert testimony in a case which was declared, in part, a mistrial because Dr. Greer presented false testimony.

Today was the last day of testimony. The expert was Dr. Cranford, a physician hired by Terri's husband in his fight to have her feeding tube removed. The physician is renowned for his involvement in right-to-kill-the-disabled cases like Terri's.

And today he made me involuntarily gasp.

I had made a pact with myself to show as little emotion as possible during the hearing to stay in the judge's good graces and to keep from affecting the proceedings. I did stray from that resolve briefly on the first day when I saw the videotape of Terri's Mom greeting her. I cried silently then in spite of myself.

And the sad arrogance of the doctors who want Terri to die has almost made me and all the other disabled group representatives present (like TASH) quietly laugh.

But today I gasped out loud in spite of myself.

It didn't happen when Dr. Cranford called the family's doctors all frauds. It didn't happen when he proudly admitted calling himself "Dr. Humane Death." I didn't even cry out when he agreed to having said, "I use killing in a morally neutral sense."

It was close when he verbally threatened the family attorney with retorts like, "You can't talk about something I'm not talking about!" But, she could handle herself. It got a little closer when Dr. Cranford said he believed it was okay to lie to patients about their true conditions.

I did have to hold the picture of my son born after my own coma and think only of that sweet young man when Cranford said he stands by his belief that the unconscious are not people with constitutional rights.

My sense of outrage almost bubbled to the surface in spite of myself when Cranford reaffirmed his belief that there is no moral or legal distinction between food, water and medicine when children with brain-damage are involved.

But, the disbelief that could not be denied started at my toes when he declined to see current records and films on Terri because he already knew the results...those results being that she should die. Even the husband's attorney had to insist that he see all the available videotape of Terri. The doctor was content to testify about the tapes without doing so.

When Cranford admitted to not keeping up with rehabilitation journals while he continued to make life changing rehabilitation decisions for people like Terri, I began to regret that I had eaten lunch.

I could hardly believe it when he admitted that the videotape of his exam was so bad that it did not prove what he claimed it did. That part of his testimony included noting that he did not have standard neurological implements to test Terri because of 9/11 security concerns while traveling.

He couldn't borrow, buy or ship to himself what he needed? But after watching him test her with what looked like his rental car keys, he announced that the lack of standard tools and a videotape that did not back up his conclusions did not change that conclusion in any way...Terri ought to die.

This is how bad the video showed his exam was of Terri:
First he declared that Terri is deaf. Then he spent the rest of the exam giving her a series of very fast verbal commands. When she did not respond, he did not attribute that to the deafness he just mentioned.

I have had more neurological exams than I can remember over the years because of my own disability. However, I have never seen or experienced one as physically brutal as the one Terri received at Dr. Cranford's hands.

He clumsily poked, prodded, thumped, pushed, pulled, shouted, moved her, shoved her and pinched her very, very hard. THEN he testified that she mysteriously seem to pull away when he approached her for more. Duh!

At one point he thunked her hard between the eyebrows and she moaned. Cranford then told the court that was not a pain response!

At the end of this Inquisition-style exam, he told Terri that it was finished. She visibly relaxed and sighed. The doctor said that was in no way connected to what he had just done!

But here is where I finally did the gasping mentioned earlier:
The family attorney showed Cranford a large picture of Terri and her mother joyously greeting each other as only two loving family members can do. The doctor said there was no way Terri could be recognizing the woman in that picture who had given birth to her.

He declared Terri's response to Mom as only an "involuntary subcortical response." Oh, but then he got much worse. The doctor said, in referring to the picture, "That's just cheap sensationalism and I've seen it done over and over...."

And that is where I could hold back no longer. That is where the family attorney said, "I am DONE with this witness."

So was every disabled group present at that point.

Beware...he went and left us with this earlier comment to the family lawyer still ringing in our ears, "...But I'm not finished yet...."

We better not be either in the face of Dr. Cranford's continuing threat to people with disabilities. �Rus (Not Dead Yet)

Walter In FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 8th, 2007 - 10:41 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

IMO, I find this “long narrative by formingly disable woman who attended the 2002 trial” not to be credible because if you read it, it appears a great deal of editing, cut – and – pasteing work and some mis-information. Plus, as usual no URL of the source.

One point: There was no trial in 2002.

Good try James but no cigar!!!

Dee

IP: 64.12.116.8

Sep 9th, 2007 - 1:19 AM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

I would take it then that you didn't read Felo's book? You can order it online.

Walter In FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 9th, 2007 - 12:37 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

I know George Felos. I don't need to read your negatives analysis of his book. I know his intent of his book and can say I do not understand some of his mind thought. But what does that had to do Terri Schiavo? Nothing! You efforts are only to make innuendos, distortions of intents, and implied defamations of George Felos.

Is this the tactics of a Christian challenging the opposite views?
The attempted negatives and personal criticisms does not prove anything, if that is you intent.
Please, just deal in the truths, directly pertaining to Terri Schiavo Case.

Dee

IP: 64.12.116.8

Sep 9th, 2007 - 12:44 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Walter, you questioned remarks by Pat Anderson in the context of her being a Chrisitan. Felos' remarks are questioned in terms of his new age beliefs.
What either said actually had nothing to do with Terri but you did take this path.You began the discussion of the lawyers and their adherance to their beliefs.

Walter In FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 9th, 2007 - 12:56 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

I find nothing in George Felos's words spoken or written that indicate he wishes harm to other individuals.

I do find Pat Anderson stated to Debbie Bushnell that Bushnell had better watch her step or the same thing will happen to her as did Father Murphy.
(Father Murphy was killed in a hit-and-run in Tampa, Fl.) Anderson made these statements in front media cameras and witness. These statements are on record at the Clearwater Police Dept. and the Florida Bar.

Pat

IP: 71.43.101.60

Sep 9th, 2007 - 4:33 PM

Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Actually, it IS the statement of a Christian. One of the Christian's duties is to warn others of moral (and mortal) danger.

james

IP: 172.133.71.20

Sep 9th, 2007 - 4:44 PM

Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Holy Cow! Is this really Pat Anderson the lawyer. The email looks familiar. If it is, I would love to hear your inside accounts on the Schiavo case.

james

IP: 172.133.71.20

Sep 9th, 2007 - 4:48 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

If this is really Pat Anderson, perhaps you might interested in the Topix Terri Schiavo. It is the update and active message on the internet today. But, if you decide to post and they discover that you are Pat Anderson, be prepared to get attacked. There are numerous Michael Schiavo trolls on the board who are merciless in their attacks.

http://www.topix.net/forum/news/terri-schiavo

Walter In FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 9th, 2007 - 7:38 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

James

No it is Pat Anderson

I'm sure Pat Anderson is at evening church services.

Good try, but again no cigar!!!

Walter In FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 9th, 2007 - 7:07 PM

Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Not by making threats to other attorneys.

Walter in FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 16th, 2007 - 10:06 AM

Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Truthfully!!!!

Janice Sanford

IP: 205.188.116.8

Sep 9th, 2007 - 7:11 PM

Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

LOL Now, James why send anyone to a board you have such a low opinion of? I'm sure Pat don't need to waste her day on any 'board.' But I am glad she chose to take the time from her busy life to clarify the statement she made to the media, for those who do read this forum. Just goes to show we never know who is watching.(smile)

Walter In FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 10th, 2007 - 8:33 AM

Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Good show Pat and Mike!

Janice Sanford

IP: 64.12.116.8

Sep 15th, 2007 - 1:37 PM

Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

Strange that you would assume that Pat Anderson wouldn't reply to your claim. I personally know Pat, and she did reply to your comment. (smile) Now. Who is Mike?

Walter in FL

IP: 70.127.118.160

Sep 16th, 2007 - 10:08 AM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Various legal motions from the Schindlers

I did not believe it was Pat Anderson.

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