Anyone know if these townhomes look like a nice property?

My boyfriend just bought a place there and we are moving in in August. They seem to be nice!

I also just bought a place in Cobblestone Court and my girlfriend and I are moving in at the end of August. I think they will end up being really nice. The builder is using a lot of good furnishings (stainless steel appliances, granite countertops, etc.). Hopefully there will be a good, young crowd living there.

The condos should be done around Sept. and look very nice. Specs include lots of high end finishes and materials and judging from the exterior work, they should be nice. Lets hope development in the area stays on the 'upscale' side and NL's continues to develop as one of the cities most desirable neighborhoods...

m - where did you find out that the condos will be done in September? I know several of the future residents are planning on moving in sometime in August.

lena - look forward to meeting you and your boyfriend. My girlfriend and I are hoping to meet some friendly neighbors to hang out with occasionally.

I bought one of the units in Phase II. I feel for all of you who have had to deal with the delay in getting Phase I done. However, based on info I've gotten this week, it appears they're putting the finishings in and should be done in August. Hopefully, we'll all get the quality units we've been promised.

Y'all know what ~ There are two places in the city that are in current construction. Each of 'em are called Cobblestone Court. whoops.

I also heard the condos will be done the end of August, just said 'around' September due to all of the delays and push-back completion dates so far. Hopefully they'll make the August date but who knows until it gets closer. I too am keeping my fingers crossed the units are as nice as expected...
Come on end of August. I know those who purchased are ready to move in!

Does anyone know if the two Cobblestone Courts are by the same builder?

I believe the 2 Cobblestone Courts have 2 different builders.

As for the NL Cobblestone Court, it appears PGW finally showed to do their work. Has anyone gotten an update on when Phase 1 will be finished?

Anyone have info on the progress of the complex? Doesn't sound like they will make the August deadline. Pretty sure info was sent out recently with an update...

Thanks. I just found out they arent the same builder..... Sorry to ya'll who are waitig to move in. Sounds like this completion date is being pushed back once again. Weren't these places supposed to be done months ago?

Hey M,
The info on the progression sounds like there is no progression.

I was at the construction site last week and I spoke to Bubba the foreman. He told me that PGW finally did their work and that he hoped they would be done by the end of August. It doesn't seem like there's much left to do so I can't imagine why there would be any further delays.

Sounds good, thanks for the update. Latest I've heard is they're shooting to complete the project by the end of August but realistically sometime in September. Has anyone receieved the 'update' letter that was supposed to go out last week?

Anyone have recent info on this project? When will construction be complete?

Good question. Michelle from McCann's office left a message with my realtor about 2 weeks ago saying they had a finished unit ready for me to look at. As usual, all of the phone calls to her since then have gone unreturned.

Bottom line is they're about 7 months behind, and McCann has been about as forthcoming with accurate information as the Bush administration.

They do not have any finished units. I don't know what they told you but none are ready/complete. They're trying to finish a sample model unit to show but even that isn't ready yet. After that's done, they plan on picking up construction on the other units. Right now they are shooting for the first few to be ready in 1-2 months. Again, many have heard promises of completion/move-in dates come and go and still nothing is ready. Hopefully the latest 1-2 month promise holds true....

I just got an letter from the builders this morining. Here's a direct quote:

"The general contractor and I were unprepared for certain unforseen delays and we have fallen behind schedule. We are 1 month away from being able to deliver completed units."

I live on 4th st and I am a home owner not renter. I am very happy that the buildings are being fixed up and transformed into coblestone court. However, this is taking too long. We need our sidewalk back and would like to sleep past 8am. The price for the condos seems very high for the small units and if you have not thought about parking you should.There are 21 condos going up for sale with this project. I assume couples will purchase these units and possible have 2 cars. Where in the world are 40 cars going to park on 4th st. perhaps the developer should have thought about that problem. Oh thats right he is concerned about making money not fitting into the needs of the neighborhood.

This one project and its parking needs might impact the streets for blocks surrounding the site. Meanwhile, the city is allegedly planning to sell-off the municipal parking lot on 3rd Street, probably for more housing.

Where is Cobblestone Court? I'm guessing somewhere on 4th St???

any updates on this project? any completed units or tenants yet?

I'm told that Phase I is finally just about done done, and that they're scheduling settlements for early December.

ah yes... more promises and nothing to show. the complex is still not done. does anyone know when if ever they will finish this project? the number of times i've heard "a few more weeks and they'll be ready".... unreal. any news anyone?

I had a meeting with the sellers last week. They've got at least two units completely done and set up as models, that the rest of Phase I should be done shortly, and that Phase II could be done by April. I'm very skeptical, but they told me that all the utility work is done, and all they have to do is renovate the building.

well....
anything?

I haven't heard anything since my last meeting, and that was 5 weeks ago. Plus, I was there last weekend and no one has moved in yet. I'm beyond frustrated.

I was looking into buying one of the units but the parking situation makes me hesitant. Is there any solution? I have a nice new car and would rather not park on the street. Are there any nearby garages?

My realtor told me today they've got closings scheduled for the last week in January. We're also going to have a meeting with the project manager sometime this week, so more details should be forthcoming.

I also heard about the scheduled closings but still nothing definite. They claim "phase 1 is complete" but if you go through the units, it is not complete. The grounds are not finished and units not ready. Many have had nothing done to them for weeks. Most are very close to complete but have been that way for months. When there are people working on the project, it's only a few at a time. As usual, communication from the sellers/projects end is poor.
As for phase 2 getting done on time.... Seeing how long it took (and is still taking) for phase 1, phase 2's completion date will certainly be pushed back...
It's frustrating and getting info is almost impossible.

Unless you find a garage, you won't be able to park, period, nice car or not. The street parking will be absolutely zip once these people move in. This is one of the reasons the neighbors are unhappy about the project. The contruction and blocking of the sidewalk for YEARS is another reason.

It has not been YEARS! Parking in front of your home may be long gone but what would you rather have -- progress and neighbors or parking and car thefts?

I am terribly sorry, but you are wrong about that. This project has been in several hands before "Cobblestone Court" was a twinkle in this developer's eye. I would rather have Cobblestone Court build a parking lot for its residents. This particular area is not a hotbed of car thefts, so yes, so if not that, I would rather have the devlopment vacant so I can park my car. Perhaps it's selfish, but that was one of the benefits of this neighborhood. I don't appreciate being run off by the 72 yuppies moving in with their 72 SUVs. Just being honest.

Let's stop this yuppie and SUV nonsense. I'm a single person with a slightly above average income, and I drive a 1998 Honda Civic. I bought at Cobblestone because I like the neighborhood and they offered something brand new that I could actually afford. And, by the way, it's the less expensive units that have sold, so I assume most of the other buyers are similarly situated. I'm sorry that you may be somewhat inconvenienced by the additional cars, but we're only talking about 23 units, most of which are 1 bedrooms.

NL's, you are absolutely right. The lack of progress and lack of communication has been disgraceful. I'm demanding a meeting with the project manager, because dealing with McCann's office has gotten me nowhere.

To me, progress would be building a parking lot with new or renovated properties. I understand you haven't lived here yet, so you have no idea what the construction and parking situation are like. Just wait until you move in. You will then understand b/c the construction will be right in your face (or behind it) and you will have no where to park your car (or SUV).

Hey folks, I'd like to give everyone a crash course in economics. Markets, especially real estate markets in urban environments, seldom stay static. 15 years ago 4th and Poplar was a freakin' war zone and then you people moved in and started calling yourself "neighbors." Well I'm sure the guys slinging dope on the corners weren't too happy about you newcomers invading THEIR neighborhood, but hey, it was all in the name of progress right? - moving NL in a positive direction. Well, this is exactly what is happening now. If you stop contractors from building in your N.L., or drive away possible homeowners who actually have a job with decent income, do you know what will happen to N.Ls? No, it won't remain the same. Another hot spot will develop, maybe Southwest or Fishtown, and then money will start flying out of YOUR neighborhood. Like it or not, you need these young yuppies with their 6-figure incomes and SUVs. You need their tax dollars, you need the 500 bucks a weekend they're going to drop at local business, and you especially need the buzz they're going to bring to N.L. If you want the neighborhood in which you live to have plenty of parking, you shouldn't be living in a city.

Also, unless you live in Montana or South Dakota and own hundreds of acres in the wilderness, you really can't call N.L.s "your neighborhood." There have been inhabitants of N.L.s for hundreds of years. We are all just renting a spot until the next generation moves in.

So relax and look on the plus side. You might have to park 3 blocks from your house, but that row home you bought for 40 grnad a decade ago is now worth 300,000.

You know, I agree with a lot of what you're saying -- we are all "newcomers" in a sense (although many of us are much more new than others. . . I'm not gonna bow down to what-used-to-be beyond living memory, but I do think that someone who's been in the same house for 30 years has a right to argue for perserving long-established traditions).

BUT. Here's a lesson in economics for you:
There are things that have value other than money.

Everyone who praises the development in Northern Liberties mentions how much more property is worth now. WHY IS THAT GOOD? Sure, it's good if you want to sell your house and move away, but one major reason this is a great neighborhood is that people DON'T move away very often.

Why would anyone NOT want her house and neighborhood to be worth more? Well:
1) Property taxes go up. Which is relevant for those of us who actually have to pay them for the next 10 years.
2) A refinanced mortgage is great, but still has to be paid off. Home equity loans are fabulous, but have to be paid off. An "increased value" on a house isn't real money.
3) It's more difficult to move within the neighborhood. Sure, my house might sell for $400,000, but any place I would move to would cost at least that much. So people who, six years ago, could have moved within the neighborhood to a larger house (or from a rental to a owned home) are stuck where they are or leaving the neighborhood.
4) Mostly, though: the property near my house is suddenly valuable to people other than me. . . and they ALWAYS want to build condos on it. Northern Liberties was full of vacant land where neighbors walked their dogs (kids, horses. . .), looked at trees, watched stormwater sink into the land rather than flood down the street -- maybe even fantasized about scraping together the $10,000 to buy it. Now most of those lots are houses, often with less than the city-required open space, and the ones that are still vacant cost $100,000.

We older-ish Northern Libertines should be nice to our new neighbors. Very very few of them were actually responsible for the house/condo being built; the project was already in process when they bought it. Very few buyers had input into the design of the property, either, and so we can't blame lack of parking/open space/taste on them.

But it would help me, at least, to be nice rather than grumpy if people would stop telling me how lucky I am that they made my neighborhood more valuable.

Janet

While I rarley agree with Janets assesments and her inability to communicate without going over the top. I gotta tell ya I agree with her 100% on this one.
Also to mention the tax dollors the new owners bring to the city there are none at least for the first 10 years.

Janet,
Those are all really good points to make. However, your language paints the picture of this beautiful open area of the city with horses grazing in lots and kids running free in the streets. Let's be honest here. Those open lots you are referring to were used more for open air drug shooting and copulating with prostitutes than they were for anything positive. Look, open lots don't stay that way. That's my whole point here. They never will remain open lots. This neighborhood had, and in essence still has, two choices. move forward (which includes construction and turning these open lots into houses and shops) or move backward and invite the drug kingpins back to stick their guys on the corners.

Also, with increased property values and more affluence in the neighborhood comes better schools, quicker and more efficient and effective service from the city (how long do you think the city would allow 18th St. near Rittenhous to be unpaved?), new playgrounds, a grocery store, etc...

For those of you who like things to remain the same, you're in the wrong part of the world. As people live longer and the world becomes more and more overpopulated, things change. Just the way it is. Either embrace it or hate it, but you ain't going to be able to stop it.

Well, isn't nice that Janet wants to keep property values from going up? preserving long-established traditions? what are those traditions? boarded up buildings? crime? drugs? i am so happy that Janet represents the neighborhood. sounds like she really has the best interests of the those who are "new" in mind doesn't she? If Janet had any foresight, she would have bought one of lots and preserved it for the good of those who have been here for "ions."

Kudos for you, "Not too bad" for calling people like Janet out. You make some great points. Philly has plenty of places for developers to go and NL will certainly lose out on the $$$ that come with them.

Thanks to Janetfor making an important point: higher property values don't necessarilly mean a better quality of life. There are lot of positive developments in NL. But it's also true that the supply of public parking is shrinking, higher rent prices have force many lower income residents out of places they occupied for years, murky construction practices abound, and the occassional bricking (on my count) seems to have risen.

Any person who has been in this neighborhood for some time is bound to be insulted be the "Beirut" characterizations and suggestions that this neighborhood was a danger zone, rescued and cleaned up by the brave risk-takers. It just aint so. Why do you think people have steadilly moved here? Because they're attracted to danger? or perhaps because - NL rocks, and has for decades.


Obviously people have different comfort zones.
While it may be true that many people who moved here recently would not have felt safe walking around these badlands 15 years ago, that simply says more about them then it does the neighborhood. I fear that the same people that didn't see the magic of NL 10 or 15 years ago still don't see it. But build them some stucco with glued on plastic shutters and raise the prices and let them fill the abyss with the stainless steel kitchen I've always wanted...sorry I got off course.

It's always been a great neighborhood! With a rich diversity, and abundabce of green space or potenially, great hidden alleyways, and all sorts of interesting living spaces. In short, authenticity. And this why so many people (myself included) gravitated here, and why many more are on their way. I have lived in lots of places and this is by far the best neighborhood I have ever lived in.

So people have a stake in what is being developed around them. Can you blame em? Healthy debate over future planning is required to balance the needs of those who want to build with those thier projects will also affect. That's what it means to live in a community.

And so this 'I'm doing you a favor' attitude is both delusional and really annoying, go raise the property value in Calcutta if you're feeling so charitable.

But yes, our property can be sold for more when its time to leave.

Momma,
Your remarks are the most selfish and ridiculous I've heard yet. I thought Janet was only out for self, but you really take that title. To address your remarks:

--low income renters are being pushed out. That's a shame, but what would you have landlords do? Rent 1/2 their properties for 200 bucks a month and the other 1/2 for 1200 a month? You do realize we live in a capitalist society right?

--Open green spaces 15 years ago??? What??? I'm a born and raised Philadelphian, and while I'm a relatively new resident to N.L., I've been coming here for decades. Those open green spaces were crack lots. We all know that. 15 to 20 years ago, N.L. was the crack and heroin capitol of Philly. To miss those abandoned lots is insane!

--You wonder why people have steadily moved to N.L. for the last 15 years. There is one main reason. You could buy a 3 bedroom rowhome for 50 grand. That doesn't mean the neighborhood was safe and awesome. It just means you could house a family of 6 for a fraction of the price you could almost anywhere else liveable in the city.

--Poor construction. You're right, a lot of corners are being cut with the new construction. Of course, constrution compaines want to maximize profits. The city zoning commission should be held responsible for enforcing stricter building standards. I'd certainly vote for it.

Finally, a few things. This isn't YOUR neighborhood. You are like the 30th generation to live in N.L. The area schools suck. There is no grocery store. taxis seldom drive around the area. street repair is either nonexistent to slow. ALL of this will turn around in a few years is more affluence moves in, and what's the cost to us? We park a few blocks from out homes. Come on, let's all grow up and welcome back the great city of Philadelphia. We're finally going to prosper once again! As a lifelong Philadelphian, I personally feel great about not being lumped in with Detriot! Go Philly!!!!

Well I'm glad to relieve Janet of her former title. See that's not selfish.

You and I, Not Too Bad see things differently.

C'mon guys lets get real. Save the sarcasim for another site. Both sides have valuable points.

Yes we should be building on the sites where there is old empty warehouses and factories. It makes sense not to metion the safety of numbers. I would also agree with more neighboors hopefully will bring more conviences to the area such as markets.

However since these new properties come with a ten year tax abatement do not plan on seeing any advantages from your tax dollars for some time. That includes better public schools and streets. As for affluence making things better hmmmm, lets get real we have had and still have our fare share of local politicians living in this neighborhood yet problems still exist. Money will not change that.

Not only have developers built or attempted to build on existing sites, they have gone after spaces that are considered open space. If not for the fight of NLNA headed by Matt Ruben the park on Lawrence would have been sold off to developers and increasing neighboors private space. Several years ago Blatstein attempted to buy out some of Orianna Hill Park. So both momma and Janet do have valid points. It is important to protect our green space.

Whats important is that both sides work together to assure the quality of life in Northern Liberties is gradifying for all or at least most. While we are ******* at one another the developers are the ones making out like bandits.

Ok, fair enough Paul. Momma, sorry to jump down your throat. One final point that I didn't bring up in detail however, is the children. Paul, you claim that affluence will not improve the area schools, and I completely disagree. Affluence is most often synomous with education, and a CEO with an MBA who makes six figures will not stand for his child learning from textbooks that are 15 years old. I've worked in education for many years and have seen this happen. You get enough affluent people (read educated) in a neighborhood and the schools do a 180 overnight. At first these individuals will send their kids to charter and bording schools, but after awhile, they'll all be at the publics, and the literacy rates, graduation rates will skyrocket, while assults and violence in teh schools will plumet (for kids of all backgrounds). I don't see the logic in sacrificing our childrens' futures for a better parking spot.

Not too bad,

I did not say that the extra tax revenue would not better the Philadelphia school system. What I said was we would not see it until the ten year tax abatement period is over. Of course thats assuming the city does not have that extra revenue bench marked for some other pet project.

In reality I find it hard to believe that families with six figure incomes will grow roots in Northern Liberties long enough to send them to any public school. I was raised on Long Island which had excellent public schools and those fortunate to have six figure incomes sent their children to private schools, that's just the way it is.

Since you have more experience with the education system of Philadelphia I hope you are correct that the revenues from the redevelopment will better our schools I quess time will tell. I just look at the State budget which gives the least amount of tax dollars to the schools and its communities that seem to need it most.

Keep in mind the city has bench marked the up and mobile and empty nesters as the new residents of Philadelphia who will be purchasing these new developments. Neither of which associate city living with schools.

Thanks for seeing both sides a little more unbiassed .

I hear ya Paul, but I'm not even talking about tax revenue. I'm talking about politics and family involvement in their kids' lives. Educated parents will not stand for garbage schools. It's as simple as that. Affluent people usually have the networks and money to get things done too. And, it's a proven fact that if your parents are educated themselves and stress the importance of education to their children, their children do much better in school.

It's this simple.

Affluence = better educated residents = better students and more concerened and involved parents = better schools for all in the 19123 zip.

And I agree with you Paul that it's mainly young folks living in NL now, but more and more families are moving in. Perfect ex. is the proposed Charter School. That would never be proposed 10 years ago.

As I said before time will tell and I hope you are right on the mark....

Oh yea and the charter school is a project undertaken by Janet and company which was a long drawn out project of red tape. So I quess we can thank her and other long time neighbors for the Charter school.

Thanks, Paul, but the Charter School project isn't something I've worked on, and while I dearly love the people (mostly but by no means entirely "older" residents) who worked on it, I'd hate to think of them as just "and company" to me.

"Not too bad" -- good name. It ISN'T too bad. We could all calm down a little. In fact, one of the things that isn't too bad is Kearny Elementary School, which will take any Northern Liberties kid. I actually agree that educated, involved -- often affluent -- parents are what every public school needs. I hope that the increase in kids in general and privileged kids in particular will further benefit the school. But it wasn't terrible to start with.

And I can't resist this last response -- I actually DID buy land and preserve it as public open space, thanks. Once literally, and twice more effectively with Orianna Hill Park and Liberty Lands. Enjoy.

Janet

Back to original topic if I may...

I just learned that this project is now at least a full year behind schedule. They're saying now that the two buildings will be done in 3/06 and 9/06 respectively. The information I posted previously about closings scheduled for January is not correct.

For anyone reading this who is interested in Cobblestone, please do not believe anything that the builder or Mike McCann's office tells you. They have not met a single deadline they have set for themselves and getting information from them has been almost impossible. This whole experience has been so bad that, if given the option, I may choose to void my contract.