It is our hope that this can become a place to discuss the comings and goings of our neighborhood; a forum to dialogue about the events and affairs that shape our common future and a platform for us to reaffirm our love for this community. Please note that this is an almost completely unmoderated message board. Read & post accordingly. Before creating a new thread we suggest that you first search this forum using the space below, and to the right. Please don't feed the trolls. Now supporting BBCode.
Despite many obstacles thrown at us, we have made great progress
towards making NorthBowl a reality. Just come
on by and check us out.
Unfortunately, our troubles are not over. A serious road block was thrown by Fred Appelbaum (a member of the committee that approved this project) and the NLNA Board contesting our Liquor License ( # R1071) awarded to us by the PCLB following a public hearing on June 10, 2005.
We are faced with a serious problem jeopardizing this massive project that we all have such high hopes for.
The first of several hearings are set for October 13, 2005.
To understand the background of this issue and learn what you can do to help. please go to our web site at www.northbowlphilly.com
Who is Fred appelbaum? What's his gig?
Did anyone see a report from the board about them oposing Liquor License for North Bowl?
Doe the board have to let us know about these actions? Do we have to vote on this? Who's paying for all these legal fees?
Jesus! Somebody finally comes up with a viable alternative to getting plastered in Northern Liberties, and somebody wants to make it difficult. Where else can you bring your kids, besides Liberty Lands and the Palm Tree? I can't wait to bowl!!!
Why is this community trying to put people out of business before they even open? We say the more the merrier and the more people that come to this area the safer it will be for people to walk around. Fred's partner was just robbed at gun point a few weeks back. As a neighbor I would think he would be pulling for a nice well run business to come here. Now the lawyers step in and like the previous post, who's paying for the lawyers for the people who "represent" Northern Liberties??? I understand that the property sat vacant for years and was used as
an Auto Repair shop... Maybe these people would rather have an industrial type business there, Hell maybe more condos? How much longer before people start to look at NL to start a business and say "forget it these people work against you not with you" Let's do what we all can to help NorthBowl open.
I'm ready to sign a petition or attend a meeting any time, day or night.
you approve a large project that is going to make northern liberties a very happening place to be, make all the businesses a lot of money, while bringing an alternative to just going out and drinking. now you (fred) decide by yourself that the liquor license should be taken away? who are you and why do you, all alone, have a god like complex to dictate what does and doesn't belong in northern liberties. i've lived in the city for 30 years, lived in northern liberties for 5 of those years and think that a community and not an individual have the rights to say what belongs and what doesn't. how is blatstein who doesn't live in the area get away with whatever he wants, but someone who lives in the community can't bring positive movement to the community???
First, please do let the NLNA know if you are interested in a special meeting to discuss North Bowl and the approval/agreement process so far. I didn't see on the NorthBowlPhilly.com site how one can access the petition, but I would like to sign it myself. If the general membership of the NLNA wants to know the details of the negotiations on this project and the Board's concerns, it should be discussed openly and in a forum where there's time to really consider the issues. The next NLNA general meeting (Sept 22 at 7 p.m. at St. Michael's church) *isn't* that forum because it's already got a packed agenda, but it would be a good time to gather signatures on a petition -- or better yet, publicize a special meeting already scheduled. Only 20 signatures are needed, so if there is an interest it shouldn't be difficult to call the meeting.
Final decisions about an issue like this, however, must be made by the full Board of Directors. That's true in any instance where the NLNA is sending recommendations to the Zoning Board of Adjustment or the Liquor Control Board, or where we're trying to enter into an agreement with someone opening a business. A special meeting of the general membership would be a place where any interested neighbors can hear both sides present their concerns and the reasons for their actions, where neighbors can voice their opinions, and where the Board can hear the general membership's sense of the issues. Like any elected officials, the Board can only be guided by the neighbors we hear from and our own best sense of what protections are necessary to preserve the quality of life in the neighborhood.
To answer two other questions raised here (i.e., "who's running this group that's supposed to represent us?" and "who's paying for these lawyers?"):
1) "Who's running this group that's supposed to represent us?"
NLNA Board members are elected by the general membership, who are expected to vote for the individuals who they feel will best represent their interests. People who wish to be represented must vote. The Board makes most official decisions for the NLNA. We meet monthly as a full group (on the first Monday of any month) and frequently in ad hoc committees throughout the month. We are neighbors and volunteers; we're all available throughout the month at the coffee shops, the bars, the preschool, the parks, our businesses or homes, and (many of us) on this message board. We're usually the people who look kind of tired and take all the fun out of being annoyed by some situation by explaining the many and complex details that affected it. You're supposed to tell us what you think so that we know. We're supposed to answer questions, explain our decisions, and listen to your concerns. That actually happens quite a lot, but generally people have to approach us so that we know what issue someone is interested in.
The current NLNA Board of Directors is:
Matt Ruben, President
Debbie King, Vice President
Bonnie Graham, Treasurer
Janet Finegar, Secretary
Joanne Aretz
Harvey Bell
Linda Conley Soffer
Larry Freedman
Irene Lambrou
Jennifer Lewis
Irvin Martes
Ira Upin
Until recently, people had to attend a certain number of meetings before becoming eligible to vote for the Board. That was changed this spring -- now any resident of Northern Liberties (using our official boundaries: Callowhill Street to Girard Avenue, 6th Street to the river below Laurel and to Front Street above Laurel) and any single representative of a business owned by a non-resident but located in the neighborhood may register to vote.
You must now register in order to vote in NLNA elections, even if you were an eligible voter in the spring. Forms are available at the office, but you must be registered by a member of the Board or a member of the election committee, who will ask you to show I.D. listing your Northern Liberties address. Anyone who'd like me to register them is welcome to e-mail me (janetfinegar@msn.com) or call me (215-627-4633) and I'll set a time to meet you and register you to vote. Registration is also happening at the farmer's market on Wednesday afternoons at the park. You must register one week in advance of any election in which you wish to vote. For the special election being held at the September general meeting, that means you must register by Thursday the 15th. Note, though, that that election is uncontested.
There will be nominations taken for another open Board seat at the September meeting -- that special election will be held in October. You must have attended three general meetings in the previous twelve months in order to be eligible to be nominated to the Board. If someone is interested in running for the Board but not eligible for the October election, that person has ample time to attend the monthly general meetings necessary before nominations for the regular election are taken in April. Special elections are held when Board seats are vacated before the term is over.
(deep breath)
2) "Who's paying for these lawyers?"
If the NLNA pays for legal representation on an issue, a lawyer is paid from the NLNA legal fund. Money for that fund has been raised through a few fundraisers, which were noted as being specifically for the legal fund. If you haven't written a check to that fund, or didn't attend the May 1 SCRUB/NLNA Legal Fund event at Poor Henry's, your money isn't being used for lawyers about North Bowl, or about any other neighborhood development issue with any developer. If you've ever complained that the NLNA isn't "doing enough" about issues with *any* neighborhood developer or project, you might consider contributing to that legal fund. It is an unrestricted fund. Any donations made to it are made with no strings attached -- we offer no promises that money will or won't be used toward specific issues. We hire a lawyer when we think we need the expertise or support on an issue, not when someone happens to give us money. The legal fund was established so that we wouldn't need to fundraise about specific issues, but would have some resources if we felt we needed representation.
I like to bowl, although not as much as my husband does. I like Oron and have found him a terrific, involved, friendly, generous neighbor. I would like this project to open and I would like it to be one that the neighborhood loves and enjoys rather than hates and resents. Over ten years on the Board, I've learned that there are protections for the neighborhood that we need to put in place (and they're mostly about parking and ensuring that a bowling alley doesn't become a nightclub) to make sure that a great business idea becomes a great business. I'd love to see those protections agreed on so North Bowl can open and I can go play pinball.
So. Sign the petition, let's air our concerns, and get this finished.
I find this all very frustrating. Developers from outside of the city, heck outside of the state, can come into this neighorhood and build huge, ugly, institutional looking housing complexes. When a member of the community wants to bring something to Northern Liberties the NLNA makes it so difficult. From my understanding North Bowl Philly has been in communication with the NLNA from the start and has cooperated with numerous and seemingly endless requests from the members. WIth all the bars in northern liberties it is a refreshing idea to have an actual activity involved with drinking. This project has so much support from the community that I think the NLNA is going to have a hard time appealing the liquor license that the city has already approved. Bring on the petition. I'll sign it.
Of course, the developers from outside the city building huge, ugly, etc. housing complexes also consider themselves to be "bringing something to the neighborhood" and have their own supporters. The NLNA *must* look at the potential benefits and problems of every project we get to see and do our best to mitigate the potential problems. The reason that some projects need zoning variances and others don't is that some projects fit into the existing City definitions of what kind of activity is allowed for the site. If a projects *doesn't* fit that definition, it needs a variance, which means that the City has to look at the project and see if it's a good idea for that location even though it goes against the established zoning. The City asks the neighborhood, represented by the NLNA, to give our opinion, because we're the ones most affected. What looks like roadblocks to people who want to move ahead with their projects usually looks like responsible attention paid to the issue by people who want to make sure the neighborhood maintains its quality of life.
The Board has never heard from a neighbor who said that parking isn't a problem in Northern Liberties, nor a neighbor who said that parking is getting easier. So we do our best to make sure that new businesses secure adequate parking so that they don't make the problem worse.
I'd like to know -- how many parking places do people think are necessary for a 250-person capacity bowling alley? Remember that some people will walk from within the neighborhood or take public transit. What about for a 150-person capacity bowling alley? That is one of the questions we've asked at the previous public meetings, and one I'd like to have answered again from the neighbors who are frustrated by this process.
Multiply the establishment capacity by two-thirds and you have your number of parking spaces.
Rationale:
On most days, estiblishment won't be at capacity.
Some people will walk, bike, take public transportation to establishment.
Those who do drive to establishment will sometimes drive with passengers in their car, thus reducing the need for additional parking for those passengers who might have otherwise driven their own cars to the establishment.
Those who still can't find parking at establishment will park on street. My expereince as a NLs neighbor is this is still not very difficult.
Wow- This seems to be a heavy discussion with many issues. Opening any kind of business in the city isn't easy. Many of these "hoops" I view as political procedure, frustrating, twisted but evitable.
In following this discussion on the blog, in the neighborhood, and with the people at Northbowl themselves, there seems to be an general concern here which is whether or not the NLNA is really representing the neighbors or rather a few select opinions of certain board members. While I think it's necessary to really discuss the issues, which Janet has narrowed down to parking and the fear of the bowling alley turning into a nightclub, I was under the impression that these issues were heavily discussed and negotiated previously prior to and during zoning and the approval of the liquor license.
Wasn't the "go-ahead" already given? Didn't the NLNA and Northbowl already come to agreements on the issue of parking and potential nightclubbing before the liquor hearing? I guess I'm just confused as to the procedural steps in this process.
I am not doubting that parking and the threat of having a nightclub emerge on 2nd St. doesn't or wouldn't concern neighbors- I know that these issues have been addressed in the past and that Northbowl has agreed to provisions and restrictions to protect the neighborhood. What I'm wondering now is that if concerned neighbors were explained these agreements and were satisfied would the NLNA then stop pressing them? If they truly represent the people then that would be the politically correct thing to do, right?
And what about parking... has everyone forgot that this is the city? Who lives here without accepting parking as an issue. Let's think about how many more people would drive to Northern Liberties to bowl if they heard there was parking... the reality is that there isn't enough parking to suit everyone who lives here now and all those about to inhabit the neighborhood. Wouldn't it be better in general if we focused on alternative means of transportation... As a resident, it's not so much my concern as to how many cars Northbowl is going to bring into the neighborhood, it's the all the new apartments, condos, houses, highrises, etc.
In wrapping this up... Janet also brought up another idea that interested me regarding fund raising and legal fees. I have attended many of the fundraisers in the neighborhood and don't like the idea that the money I helped raise is going to fund this now legal battle. I'm thinking that although it wouldn't be terribly practical in all instances, the idea of fundraising for specific issues does bring back a certain about of power to the neighborhood people. For instance, if the NLNA held a bake sale to raise money for the legal fees on this issue it would be interesting to see how many apple pies they would actually sell. And another note... looks like the holiday party will be a McFadden's another year after all. Blah!
Can you guys please stop with all the hipster references in your bar, banquent and **** bowling alley descriptions....it is seriously ridiculous and not to mention a bad way to sell the neighborhood. My friend is getting married soon and I looked at your description for the banquent hall and was immediately turned off. Not every Northern Liberties local is a "hipster" and frankly, its all a little overbearing. Please stop categorizing the neighborhood as a mecca to all those that wear too tight, non-matching clothing, drink really bad beer while overpaying for their really bad haircuts.
1. People shouldn't drive to bars, whether or not they are bowling alleys.
2. Business district parking isn't an issue that should be handled/addressed solely by prospective business owners. The city government should take a leadership role (ha ha) and address the infrastructure needs in growing neighborhoods. Parking is an infrastructure issue. Mass transit is an infrastructure issue.
So what's the word in there? I've noticed a distinct cancerous type smell coming out of there over the weekend. Is it laquer or something? Are the lanes down?
Don't listen to the naysayers. Just do your thing how you want it. People will always have opinions so don't sweat. It was cool meeting you at the park this weekend. I was with my friend Justin and we were watching the Uni-Bog do its thing.
Hi, Kevbo. It was nice to meet you in person at the park Saturday. . .
NLNA and North Bowl have a legal agreement in place; NLNA withdrew its L&I appeal as a result. There are some details left to discuss, but every reason to think that there can be useful negotiations and agreements as we proceed.
Oron reported Saturday that lanes are going in (why would they smell cancerous?), which means that bowling should commence soon. I can't wait to give it a try!
NLNA didn't appeal to L&I, I just typed it wrong. The appeal was to LCB (Liquor Control Board), as is explained in way too much detail through this thread.
Methinks you have consideration of a challenge in mind. Thereupon I wish you well. May your balls hang not in the gutter but flow mightily unto that lumber carved into pins.
As one Dude said "Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback."
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