Around midnight on Saturday evening, I was walking past the corner of 2nd and Poplar returning to my home. I walked past a group of 15 - 20 white, frat looking guys and girls (the kind that I have seen in line frequenting Mcfaddens).

As I walked by them, one of them said "don't walk down that street there's black guys down there". He didn't say "black guys" but used an ignorant racial slur. I replied that "Why do you have to use a slur?" and kept walking up Poplar. As I got to The Ground Floor coffee shop I was shoved from behind into a parked pickup truck and punched. I slipped, fell to the ground in the middle of the street and started being kicked in the head, back and legs.

A car was coming down Poplar and when his headlights got closer the frat/guido/idiots ran off. I lay curled up in a dazed bleeding ball. The driver told me that he saw five or six guys standing around me kicking me as I lay on the ground.

The one person who had driven up called the cops and the folks who live above/by the ground floor gave me some water to drink and waited with me til the cops showed up. I don't know their names but they were so helpful and I want to thank them.

The cops showed up quickly - two patrol cars at least. They took my statement and we drove around looking for the group that attacked me.

I don't really know why I got attacked, beaten and kicked to the ground. I just figure these guys were looking to be provoked and my response was just the ticket.

Just remember, when you're around what I had considered previously to be a safe area - you can still be attacked. My attackers were all 25 - 30 yr old white males.

I wasn't able to identify them by driving around with the police (who were also very helpful, polite and courteous). I remember one guy had 3 earrings on one ear and 2 earrings on the other ear. I think I also remember a pair of Doc Maartens hitting the side of my head. Neither of those were enough to id these idiots.

Just a warning of note to my fellow Northern Libs residents.

David

PS Tonight I have a bad headache, my nose is swollen and bruised and I feel like I was run over by a truck. today but I consider myself lucky that it wasn't worse. Why are people idiots?

Glad that you're in one piece. Things could always be worse..

Sorry to hear about that BS happening to you. There are some real trashy people that come to the neighborhood, you just gotta learn to pick your battles. And I'm not trying to add insult to injury. You never know what's going to set off a popped collared, gelled up hair ahole.

k

They weren't frat guys, they were skinheads... don't mess with them.

They beat someone else up at 2nd and Poplar in front of 2nd Street Pizza... but not badly. They just punched him a few times for running his mouth and walked away.

I didn't get a good look at anyone, glad you're okay.

that's some bs. I am glad you're alright. people never think that even one punch/kick/shove etc. could be enough to take someone's life. It happens. So therefore they risked your life for??? it's just stupidity.

hey Some Guy - any more information? Was the night they hit somebody else by 2nd Street Pizza the same night? Have you seen them before? Just wondering if these are some cats (or "skinheads" I guess) that frequent NL. I'm wondering if someone nearby might fess up to knowing these "men".

So, I'm sorry this happened to you...it's pretty lame, and pretty punk-a$$ed too. But at the same time, what ever made you think, "you know what group of 20 young, fit and drunk men with girls who men naturally try to impress at all costs? I think I'm going to open my mouth and say something that is obviously going to incite you."

I mean, come on man. What did you think would happen? Then you go ahead and start tossing labels around like frat boys and guido, when someone else apparently has a completely different description of them? Grow up man. Just because someone doesn't fit into your NL mold doesn't give you the right to use names that make you no better than the guilty party calling the other guys..."that".

Again...sorry it happened, and I hope you can find them to take appropriate actions, but everyone should ditch these whole frat-boy/yuppy/guido/hipster/emo-loser monikers.

And for future reference...20 versus 1 are terrible odds, even when the other team is a bunch of drunken a-holes.

Potts,

Same group, about 15 minutes earlier, almost the same location...

The guy was peeing on a fence. A short dude said something about it. The guy who was peeing guy and short dude started talking to each other, and then one of the skins sucker punched the short dude while the two were talking. Short dude turned to see what happened, he punched him again. The peeing guy turned to the punching guy and was like "He's three feet tall, leave him alone" and told the short dude to leave and he did.

Definetly Nazi skinheads. Not all of them wear boots and bomber jackets all the time... most of them were dressed nicely, had doc martins on... but you could see the insignias on the jackets.

Anon,

You don't know what you're talking about.

These were skinheads who identify as skinheads. I know because I grew up around them and went to high school with a number of them... easily recognizable if you know what a skin is.

In my limited experience of dealing with skins, if you say something like "Don't use the N word" they'll beat the CRAP out of you (boot party) for being a "race traitor" and telling them what to do.

Hell, they'll just beat the crap out of you if they feel like it... and they can fight. They're not your drunken frat boy type with a big mouth, these are guys who get into fights every weekend for fun. They're not afraid of anything or anyone.

If you see them, don't approach them. If you're with a minority, go the other way.

BELIEVE me...I'm not sticking up for them. I didn't even know that type was around here.

What I'm saying is, why would you ever open your mouth like that to a group of 20 or so drunk strangers? That's completely assinine...mind your own business. If they want to be garbage, let them be garbage. I also thought the stereotype of drunken, popped-collar frat boy guidos was a bit much, especially since it was apparently a wrong assumption.

Anon,

Understandable.

I'm just trying to paint a real clear picture...

Frat boys are loud mouthed drunks who sometimes get into fights, but they're mostly harmless and looking for a good time. And yes, it's unfair to label people... I graduated from college, went to professional school, dress nice, and can be mistaken for a "frat boy" (which I'm not)

Skinheads, however, are nothing to be trifled with. If you say something to them (Like Short Dude and David Murphy did), you're going to get the crap kicked out of you-- no matter where you are.

Just keep to yourself, I guess, is the moral of the story.

Everyone is okay, nothing to see here...

Let's try not to devolve into a round of Blame the Victim here, shall we. I think the original post was intended to inform people of a crime that took place in the neighborhood, not ask "What did I do wrong? Why me?"

Anon,

Agreed.

I was trying to answer those questions... which is "Skinheads like to fight, you said something to them."

I'm speculating, but they were probably at a show at Johnny Brendas or the Fire and then came down to 2nd Street to grab some pizza.

Sorry, guys, but if you've ever lived near Finnegans's those people(frat-guy-types)are capable of anything. The only trouble we ever had in this neighborhood, over the course of 15 years, had come from them. I am so happy we don't live within proximity of the Finnegan's/McFaddens crowd anymore.

**** happens sometimes. It could have just as well have happened if you had just ignored them and kept on walking down Poplar. Who knows. No need to scratch your head about what you could have done differently.

Thanks for the heads up. I frequently walk down Poplar from 6th to 2nd... seems like a safe area generally, but it can feel a little desolate.

In my opinion skinheads are one of the lowest forms of life we have on the planet. It scares me because I would have done the same thing as David and spoke out against this type of racism but would have probably not survived the beating. I am from another era and need to know how to identify these types. Drunken/loud young adults are a common occurrence in this neighborhood. I am familiar with the stereotype skinhead visual of the 80's. What do I need to know so when I say something in response to ignorance I can identify these types and..............run?

David, I am soooo sorry you had to go through all that horror. You did the right thing and spoke out against hate.

80's girl,

When you see a large group of people with shaved heads, Doc Martins, and tattoos, they're not frat guys...

A few of this group had bomber jackets on, but most of them were dressed nicely (I'm assuming to get into bars / restaurants)... but frat guys don't ALL shave their heads, have tattoos, and wear Docs.

Look at the boots and the haircut. If the boots have white or red laces and they're wearing Docs, 99% of the time it's skinheads. If they have tattoos, a buzz headed, and Doc Martins... and are making racist comments... it's skinheads.

But boot laces are always a good indicator.

Thanks for all the comments. I didn't mean to slander any specific groups I was just trying to give a description for other people's reference.

I'm not the kind to go up against 20 drunks in any situation but the thought that skinheads who just want to beat people are partying in our neighborhood is an unpleasant thought.

If this thread helps a few people avoid the situation I found myself in, then my alert here will have served a good purpose.

I will see about getting the "skinhead" description (including laces) to our local precinct. Maybe it will help the cops spot these hate groups before it escalates.

Geez folks. Just to clear-up a misconception real quick. "Frat guys" don't stand on corners waiting to attack people, and they certainly don't frequent Finnigan's. I think you're confusing both skin heads and high school drop outs (primarily from Northeast Philly and South Jersey) for "frat boys." "Frat Boys" go to bars where hot girls frequent, like the Public House and Midtown Continental. I think you're all a bit insolated with your sterotypes. Get out of N. libs. more.

That may be true, but "frat-boy-types" covers a wide demographicin my mind.

Really, that's funny b/c "unsuccessful artists" covers a huge demographic in my mind.

Two guys get beaten up by Nazi skinheads on a major road in our town merely for talking...

...and all we can do is debate the meaning of "frat boys?"

Let me put this into a bit better perspective...

Two guys got beat up right in the middle of 2nd Street for little more than talking.

What do you think would have happened if an inter-racial couple walked by or a small group of minorities? Let's just say it'd of been a lot worse than what happened to David.

A Nazi hate group is beating people up in this town and we're worried about 'frat boys?'

Um yeah, skinheads really arent as tough as this one person is making them out to be. I grew up outside of Philly where there were skinheads everywhere and the majority of them were pussies who wore boots and shaved their heads cause they thought they looked tougher that way. To give yourself the title of "skinhead" is really lame and these douchebags need to get over themselves.

I think you meant "A Little Insulated?" As a general rule, when the thread turns petty I think we should at least get the spelling correct.

Cupcake,

I never said they were "tough."

I said they were crazy and willing to fight when they're in a large group against single opponents... and they're also not afraid to exploit having the upper hand (like kick your teeth out when you're severely outnumbered and laying on the ground)

I mean, c'mon, they sucker punched a guy who was like 5'5 and hanging out with his girlfriend while there were 20 of them and the dude walked away from it laughing, didn't even bat a (bloody) eye. It then took like 6 or 7 of them to beat up one single guy for asking them not to say the "N word." I don't think that's tough at all, but it's certainly dangerous.

My concern is that an inter-racial couple or small group of minorities will walk down the street and BAM! no idea what hit them and why, except for 20 dudes wearing Docs.

We probably grew up in the same area.

Sorry to hear about this, David. It ****** me off, really. I generally like people, but when I hear about things like this (that girl being robbed at gunpoint last week, for example) it makes me want to just sit in my apartment and only come out to get food and go to work.
I've lived in a couple of big cities so far (Albuquerque and Houston) and Philly has always been my favorite. Especially Northern Libs (I used to live in the museum area).
I have a few techniques I use to avoid conflict (especially on nights out):
1. I never make eye contact unless someone talks to me. When I do respond, I smile, keep an even tone, and act kinda stupid (which isn't too hard). I only respond and never go off on another topic--there's no telling what some people will take offense to. If they say something racist or otherwise stupid, don't let them know you disagree. Just bask in the fact that you aren't an *******.
2. If you're traveling from bar-to-bar (this is usually my case), do so in a group (of non-idiots, hopefully. If your friend likes to start ****, then let him go off on his own, or scare him into shutting up. Don't let someone drag you into their own battles).
3. Might be obvious, but stay in well-lit, well-traveled areas (e.g. Spring-Garden, 2nd St.) If someone approaches you or says something, just ignore them if you can. I find that by smiling and saying "Sorry, No English, friend" in heavily-accented Pseudo-Slavic will confuse the generic ******* long enough to make your escape.

God, I'm a *****. I should really write a book: "The Scaredy-cat's guide to surviving the world". ;)

David, I'm so sorry that happened to you.
I, too, would have not been able to hold my tongue and have been known to say similar things, (as you did,) to people, however, knowing what I know now, which I'll illustrate further, I wouldn't have done so if those people had any of the following signs. I've been threatened over the internet by some skinheads, via myspace, but knowing there was no way they could really know my true identity or if I really lived in the city I listed, I merely told them if they had the B*LLS to show up, I'd have a cake ready. They didn't. But, under any other circumstance, there'd be NO hesitation if they could've found me.
These racists, neo-nazis/skinheads are ALL over myspace, and are organizing through groups on that site. There's another site that's REALLY organizing, Stormfront.org
They're EVERYWHERE. Why the news aren't focusing on this while they're ONLY busy with the internet pedophiles is beyond me.
There are also groups of people who are infiltrating the racist etc., groups and profiles and getting them kicked off myspace, but they still come back.
Examples of groups- (Many of the members are now phony people who've taken over the groups to try to break them up, I'm one of them.)
White Pride

We the People

Note the members in the groups- the ones that don't look like clowns or deliberate jokes are the racists. Check their profiles. The boot laces are significant, red meaning "blood," "white" also common, blue means "straight edge." and the hardcore ones wear something they call "braces" which are like white suspenders over their "wife-beater" shirts.
They use certain numbers that have meaning to them as greetings, in writing, anyway. And you can't miss the use of the word "comrade," which they address each other as, or alternately, "brother" or "sister."
In their myspace profiles, they almost always cited "Mein Kampf" as their favorite book, and for all the wrong reasons, "American History X" is in their list of favorite movies. They often have tattoos not necessarily of the obvious "swastika" but have adopted the "iron cross," skulls, and even the Celtic Cross, among others...Skinhead symbols

I found all this out during the time I personally spent online hiding in "their" world.
Numbers that have special meaning are, especially,
14,(Meaning:"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children") 88,which translates to Heil Hitler, (sometimes used together as 1488, often at the end of a correspondence.
100% is also used to indicate "racial 'purity'" and 311 symbolizes KKK.
Last, but not least, you don't want to be around to hear "RAHOWA," which means racial holy war...




Oi! Skinhead Oi!

What next? Weird Panthers prowling Liberty Lands? I thought the WP were only in Port Rich???
Any input is appreciated.
Bomber jackets or torn denim suits... it's so hard to tell now-a-days. Please post any photos you may be collecting of me.

This is really disturbing news and I hope David is still recovering well. That said, I'm a little concerned with the immediate pinning of this on a skinhead group. While the skinheads are troubling and possible, it's too easy a conclusion to accept right off, and kind of sensational. Blaming people who are 'clearly evil' makes everyone's view of people and human nature a lot neater than acknowledging that ordinary drunk people are capable of very ugly violence and sentiments. I've seen the results of skin-head pipe and bat beatdowns over dope money ... I've also seen the same sorts of life-threatening and life-ruining injuries dished out by economics students with bare hands and a workboot (in front of 'high end' residential areas in Boston no less). I've also seen "ordinary" people cite "evil people" (skinheads, gangbangers, whatever) as a smokescreen for their own actions.

Before we get back to what happened to David and what Some Guy saw, and so that I provide something actually useful, for the readers still wondering about what skinheads are or are not, the most authoritative source providing a clear headed sense of what skinheads are is the Southern Poverty Resource Center (the folks behind Klanwatch, but whose mission has also branched out beyond simple white supremacy to include militant homophobes like Eric Rudolph and his supporters):

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intpro.jsp

To the MySpace observer, law enforcement, federal and state, as well as academic criminologists are _very_ aware of the online organizing of these groups. These groups were using the internet since back in the BBS days before the Web was even thought of. My guess would be MySpace is simply a recruiting tool for serious groups to sort out who's really hard corps and who might be a poser (and to scope women). However, much like terrorist groups (and face it, while most of these people are just a-holes and thugs, some of these people are terrorists), it's very difficult to make a strong case against a group of people spouting hate speech online; but if you really are reading what you believe to be criminal conspiracy, and you think local law enforcement ought to know, do e-mail them. The mainstream news doesn't give them much attention mostly because people turn away from racism stories more often than not, pedophiles glue concerned parents to the tube, as would so-called "Columbine" style conspiracies online (which usually amount to a bunch of emotionally troubled teens misusing the internet to vent their ***********

Now as for what happened to David, I'm still on the fence as to whether these were indeed skinheads or, just as Kevbo may have rightly put it early on, a bunch of a-holes. I mean if these guys were hard core into Aryan Nation / World Church of the Creator type ideology and David challenged their racist thinking, when they were beating him, they would've been ****ed clear as to why they were beating him, calling him a "race traitor," "******-lover," and their default epithet for any man that thinks differently, "faggot".
It's probably too much and too soon for David to fully reconstruct his assault; but if nothing like that was said, we know only that he p!ssed off this group of bigoted a-holes. (Let's also keep in mind that "******" is more a mainstream epithet used by the likes of Michael Richards. If anyone looked closely at the Jim Allen macacca incident, a lot of people who follow the hard core racist movements online, in print, and in person, commented that they suspected it was "coding" since macaque and monkey and mud people are the terms being used by the really dangerous ones in the country.)

As for the "look" Some Guy ascribes to Skinheads, as Crustington quipped, unfortunately while there were clear markers for white separatists back in the 80s and early 90s, too many counter cultures have stolen and traded markers, and almost all of those markers are now in mainstream fashion. Are we talking about people with really shaved heads, or are we talking about a group with "buzzed" hair, or close crop, or military "high and tight" style hair, all (including the complete shave) of which have been in vogue with athletes, fraternities, lawyers, and accountants for sometime and the styles are even more in vogue now in the present moment of military adventurism. Nylon bomber coats have been in and out of mainstream fashion for some time, and you couldn't get into art school post 1985 without a pair of Doc Martens in your closet. Tattoos same problem, too entrenched into mainstream fashion. "Classic" skinhead tattoos used to have a "prison ink" style to them, but the same could be said for a lot of gangs. As tattooing has become more an accepted artform, maybe the quality of skinhead tattoos has also evolved.

So I guess from either David or Some Guy, what did this crowd really look like? Were we talking real skinhead heads, or high and tight hair? The jacket patches, flags, flash, and tattoos, what on those made you think skinhead? David's estimate that his assailants were 25-30 years in age also strikes me as odd for skinheads. By that time, most skinheads have either hopefully "grown out of it" or more likely "grown away from it" (it's hard to conspire against the Negro-Zionist state when you need to hold down a 40 hour + overtime job a week to cover the bills). Those who are in their mid to late 20s bracket often either have got some "discipline" from the military or prison (as well as having their idealogy hardened), but at the same time won't be playing the young turks' game of random bum rushing. Then again, meth is a choice drug among skinhead sorts these days, so they may be a little bit more unpredictable, though things seemed a bit tamer in the earlier altercation, if we are indeed talking about the same crowds.

I guess what I'm saying is, let's not just assume these are evil skinheads right off the bat; but rather as a neighborhood and a community be vigilant for belligerent behavior in general. This sort of violence is unacceptable regardless of the perpetrator, but we should be open to the possibility of this being done by "ordinary" people. Then again, I think as Jordan pointed out a while ago some potential race baiting being instigated by "Shar/Tiffany/Yo Momma" a while back, and that's not the first of the really poor taste "typing ebonics" parody that's been on this board. Maybe this type has been here for a while.

Cheesesteak,

I promise you, these are skinheads. I used to be involved with them.

I saw the logos on the bombers. I saw the laces. I saw the shaved heads and recognized the tattoos.

Probably just hanging out at Johnny Brendas or the Fire getting pizza... but they were skins.

I'm sorry I can't contribute anymore to this thread, but I promise you, they're skinheads. Proceed with caution.

who ******* cares? people on here blow everything into some big debate. these guys beat some people up, the people are ok now, thats that. shouldnt the main thing here be that the guy is ok and not dead. ive learned that skins arent even that racist, its the nazis you have to worry about. the skins are more like hardcore punks than biggots, atleast all of them that i've met...

ok, get ready to hate and talk smack cheese, cuz we all know your the smartest person on here.

gatts,

I care.

Gee, we've _been_ talking about "racist skinheads" (aka neo-Nazis) not the various non racist groups with similar fashions (straight edge, SHARPS, etc., you can find the style's relatively innocent origins among working class brit black and white youth into ska in the 70s); and if a crowd of peaceful skins were in the neighborhood, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Besides, my whole point was let's wait on the labels till we can really get a handle on the facts, or discern if this is actually a problem in the neighborhood or a random unfortunate incident.

Gatts, I love your outlook on the world. A basically random savage beating was dished out in NL, a beating that some are alleging was delivered by organized gang activity, and you say "that's that". You're pathetic. If you ever get beaten down or victimized in the neighborhood, I'll be sure to follow your advice and shrug it off. No hate or smack, gatts, just your point of view played out by your request.

my point is what is everyone on here gonna do? when you see a group of skinheads in the area are you gonna call the cops or tell them to get out of our neighborhood? no!!! your not gonna do ****, so why are you talking like your gonna make anything change, your not...

and david, sorry the ********s jumped you, start carrying a knife atleast, anything can happen in this neighborhood.

gatts,

if he'd of pulled a knife on them, they'd of used it to slit his throat...

Not for nothing, but it seems like gatts has a point. David is ok and thats really all that matters. The fact that theres people in our neighborhood doing this is inevitable, cause with the way theyre being portrayed on this site, no one is going to say anything to them if theyre spotted. Also, theres someone on this site (some guy) claiming that they know who these punks are and that they ARE dangerous. So why isnt anyone doing anything about it? If its such a big deal and you want your neighborhood safe, why not contact some guy and find these *******s that did this so we can prevent it from happening again

I don't know these particular skinheads.

My best friend growing up was a member of a very large and well organized Pennsylvania skinhead gang. They beat up lots of people. They are no joke... my friend spend and most of his buddies spent time in jail for assault, battery, etc. They drove around on the weekends looking for people to fight and beating the crap out of people and sometimes each other.

I recognize skinheads when I see them... and I know what they do to people. That's all I'm saying.

You want to pick a fight with 20 guys? That's on you. Just know that if you do, they're going to fight back.

There's a difference between courage and an outright disdain for life...

"I didn't get a good look at anyone"

"Same group, about 15 minutes earlier, almost the same location...

The guy was peeing on a fence. A short dude said something about it. The guy who was peeing guy and short dude started talking to each other, and then one of the skins sucker punched the short dude while the two were talking. Short dude turned to see what happened, he punched him again. The peeing guy turned to the punching guy and was like "He's three feet tall, leave him alone" and told the short dude to leave and he did."

"A few of this group had bomber jackets on, but most of them were dressed nicely "

"I saw the logos on the bombers. I saw the laces. I saw the shaved heads and recognized the tattoos."


Those are all comments youve left. You went from not getting a good look at anyone, to knowing where the group was 15 min. prior to davids beating. Not saying your involved, but it seems like you know a lot more than we think. You also seem to know so much about how dangerous this particular group is. Just sounds fishy to me.

Cupcake,

You are absolutely, positively, 100% retarded and ignorant. I really hate to insult people, especially over the internet, but you keep displaying your ignorance... I've been biting my tongue at the stupid stuff you've been saying, like "Stand up to them" and "they're not that dangerous." You have no IDEA what you're talking about. Your blatant ignorance is appalling.

Consider this... a large group of skinheads isn't something you see often in Northern Liberties, nor is a fight on 2nd Street. I was hanging outside of the 700 Club, they were all hanging out in front of 2nd Street Pizza. You can't miss that many skinheads, and I know what they look and dress like because of my friend from high school. After they beat up the first guy, they CONTINUED to hang out in front of 2nd Street pizza. How could you NOT notice a group of 20 large guys, all with buzzed heads, wearing Doc Martins? Some even had bombers with patches on them.

I've already explained why I'm familiar with some logos. My best friend in growing up was a member of a very large and well organized Pennsylvania skinhead group. He, and many of their members, spent time in jail for some of their activities... which included beating the crap out of people on almost every weekend.

Were these guys members of the group my friend was in? I dunno. But I do recognize bomber jackets with white pride patches on them.

Do a google for "pennsylvania skinheads." See what kind of things come up. Murders, beatings, assaults... it's a very active and extraordinarily violent movement in this state. It's also a very well organized movement that doesn't get much media attention.

And besides that, I was intoxicated... because you know, that's what people do at bars...

So I could tell you it was a large group of skinheads outside of 2nd Street Pizza, but that's the extent of it...

Here, read this:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=607

Recently, some PA skins were charged with stabbing an anti-racist skinhead outside a club. Others were recently arrested for trying to kill an interracial couple.

VERY VERY dangerous people.

I don't know if the guys on 2nd Street are a member of this faction, but they certainly could be. Just do a google for "pennsylvania skinheads" and read what kind of things come up.

Then tell me you want to mess with people who have a reputation for stabbing, shooting, and beating people...

Cupcake, this is why I'm saying you're ignorant. You don't know who these people are and what they're capable of.

no one is saying lets go hunt these people down, and you seem to be way too involved with all this skinhead info, why??? and trust me, i bet there where plenty of black people walking around that didnt get in fights with these guys, i really dont think they will be in this area again. and the whole knife thing, it never hurts to have some kind of protection.

and dont call other people ignorant because they would rather go down with a chance than do nothing, what if they wouldnt of stopped beating him???? do you know if any of these guys had a bullseye tattoo on their head?

Some Guy seems to be saying we should be outright terrified whenever Keystone State Skins (as the SPL identifies the PA state-wide network, probably linked to national Aryan Nation / World Church of the Creator groups) set foot in NL. Gatts' take seems to be more saying, "Skinheads ... well, what we gonna do about? There goes the neighborhood." Basically both Some Guy and Gatts seem to be saying the neighborhood should just bend over and take it from this crowd. Now all this might be moot since we don't know if this past weekend was just Skins checking out NL for ***** and giggles or whether Skins are definitely trying to roost in NL.

People living in fear of this sort of strength in numbers garbage is exactly what these kind get off on. For those with the courage to not turn or run away, things can be done. Now by no means should anyone directly confront these people on your lonesome and Gatts knife carrying recommendation is far stupider than anything Cupcake's ask. However, when this sort of congregating and violence is witnessed, it should definitely be reported. Some Guy, David supplementing his report to the police by saying, "some guy thinks he saw the same crowd causing crap in front of 2nd St." won't have as much weight as Some Guy telling the police, "I saw some guys before that reported assault causing crap in front of 2nd St, and I'm positive they were KSS." Hearsay vs. testimony. The Philly PD's gang intelligence unit has only recently shifted its attention (in slow response to the murder/gunshot rate) to the largely African-American groups a lot of people think of when they hear the word "gang". For the past few years, if not decade, most of their gang surveillance was focused on white drug and prostitute running motorcycle gangs, who sometimes work with groups like these skins. What I'm saying is this sort of info is something they may find useful, may even know who to look for, and going to the cops is far more valuable service than warning the neighborhood "look out for these mofos, they'll jack you up!"

The rest of the neighborhood that cares about the quality of life around NL (controversial topic, I know) should try to maintain some level of vigilence. Look out for this type of crew hanging out. If they seem to be establishing a presence, organize through the NLNA with local clergy (who in turn, may be able to get some help for SPL/Klanwatch, who in turn could pressure the local police to disperse this nonsense). Proactively support racially diverse arts in NL, back anti-racism rock and art shows. There are a lot of musicians and artists against racism coaltions out there. Maybe even Benji can get his locally rooted hiphop collective involved if they're political etc. Yeah, one person standing up to this sort of ugliness will likely get stomped. But the test of a real community (and not just NL neighborhood hype) is whether it can draw a line as far as what is acceptable behavior in its confines or whether its members collectively shrug and individually hope whatever nastiness goes down happens to the other guy. Christ, didn't everyone get the "They came for _____ and I did nothing" poem in high school?

--cti

p.s. Gatts, pet peeve, man, your and you're. Made my eyes bleed.

I was at a hardcore show back in the 90s at the Troc where these racist skins showed up. Fights broke out inside the club and the nazi skins got beat up pretty badly. Outside the club, two cars full of these skins, based out of Atlantic City I believe, waited for the show to end and sat waiting in the car with guns. A few people were shot at, I think one person was shot in the leg. I remember ducking behind cars on Arch Street near the wawa

I echo some guy's concern, these people are not to be messed with. I've been to several shows over the course of 10 years where they have showed up in large numbers and things turned violent shortly thereafter. If I was to guess why these types were hanging out in NL, I would put my money on the previous poster that said they were here for a show nearby and stopped for pizza. I can't imagine these types hanging around NL for any other reason.

Just my two cents...

Bullseye tattoo? Like the Daredevil villain? Skinheads reps are pretty cartoonish, yeah, but I don't know if I follow.

Everything Some Guy's saying can be found with a bit less alarm on the SPL website.

But in what Gatts said is a good point, the beating stopped and they ran off because someone else came along. But really, don't carry a knife unless you've actually stabbed someone before, otherwise, you're setting yourself up for even more hurt, especially against a crowd.

You're misconstruing what I'm saying...

My point is that these aren't frat boys (as was initially thought). Sometimes you get into a fight with idiots, you get a black eye, and that's that. These guys are different. They'll kick your teeth out or stab you. This is a very violent and well organized group of people, and please be aware of that.

Don't approach them on the street if you're outnumbered or unarmed. Consider them armed and dangerous. Don't say anything to them if you're out manned. I'm very concerned that an interracial couple will not recognize the group and they'll start with them and then run away. That's what they do.

Do do all of the Cheesesteak you mentioned, I'm all for that... but like I said earlier, there's a difference between courage and having a disdain for life. Call the police if they start becoming a problem, be aware of your surroundings...

A Joke:

Q: How many skinheads does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A: 10.
1 to screw it in an 9 to back him up.

Some guy, get over yourself. Im not ignorant at all. Just merely concerned that you seem to know so much about these people. If these guys were that dangerous, they could have easily put david in the hosptial. perhaps killed him. but no, they didnt and thank god for that. All im saying is that youre a sketchy character. All i know is that if i saw a person getting there ass brutally beat by a bunch of people, skinheads or not i would help them. I guess thats just me being retarted and ignorant. Id prefer to take my chances, even as a female and go down with a fight, rather then let a bunch of pathetic, ignorant racists (that you yourself are/were involved with) beat on a poor innocent individual who was just defending themselves. How retarted of me.

Cupcake,

You continue to once again display your ignorance and lack of reading comprehension.

I didn't see David get beaten up. 700 Club is far from Poplar.

The guy who I did see get punched looked like he could handle himself, he was talking ***t to them right back. Their dispute wasn't even racially charged. I'd hardly call him getting punched twice "brutally beaten" considering the guy continued to talk ***t and then walked away laughing.

The extent of my night is I was at 700 Club, saw some skinheads hanging out at 2nd Street Pizza. One of them got into a fight with a short dude in a brief altercation over peeing on a fence. I came home and read this post, and thought I'd let everyone know that these aren't frat boys.

I've already explained my involvement with them...
one of my best friends is a former skinhead. I would never abandon him no matter who or what he got involved with, because that's not what friends do. He went through a very stupid and difficult time in his life.

I'm sorry if you think people should abandon their friends when they go through tough times... but I don't.

You're ignorant and retarded because you continue to make assertions without any knowledge of the subject.

First of all i never said you saw david get beat up, but you did see someone. You say that you werent close enough to see anything but yet you could still see their laces and recognize their tattoos? You also claim that this group only "sucker punched" that guy in the face and he walked away without even "batting a bloody eye" but again, you werent close enough to see, right? If thats all they did to this guy, when you say he was apparently talking all kinds of **** to them, why would you say, "if you pulled out a knife they would probably slit your throat with it". Stop contradicting yourself and stop digging yourself a deeper a hole. you obviously know something and if the people reading your post dont see that, then they need to go read again. Im leaving it at that.