After a walk to the Palm Market on Tuesday night we noticed that on second st between Fairmont and brown St. on the west side of the street there are about 15 store fronts, three looked to be occupied (700, Sovalo & Nationwide ins). the rest of the store fronts seem to be vacant.

It was scary walking down the street without open shops and not many people around.

We welcome Ritas, it will bring foot traffic and possibly make that area safer, don't bash Ritas unless you have a solution to bring other business to the area or open something yourself.

Agreed. A Rita's will bring bright lighting and lots of foot traffic when the weather is nice.

Azure, if you're scared to walk down 2nd, then you should relocate, or lobby for increased police presence in NLs.

People are allowed to freely express their opinion on this Forum (indeed, in this country), whether it be about Rita's or about your own restaurant, and whether you like it or not.

Finally, perhaps you should stay away from the politics focus on providing good food & service at your establishment. That, after all, should be the recipe (pun intended) to YOUR success.

I've lived at 2nd and Fairmount for two weeks now. I park in front of the Nationwide every night and haven't had any issues with vagrants or transients. I agree Rita's should be welcomed with open arms though. People walking through the neighborhood to get water ice will act as a sort of TownWatch, I'm sure. Oh! incase you were wondering... Rita's Lime water ice and Stoli Vanil are a match made in heaben.

Disagree, relax, just worried about peoples safety and trying to welcome a new business. We've been here for 4 years now and love this neighborhood, we just want to see everyone get along. Enough will the negativity. This isn't politics, it reality.

Disagree-

I disagree. While I'm not thrilled about Rita's, it is incredibly difficult to deny the fact that there is a lot of room on 2nd St for all sorts of purveyor of goods.

Not everything has to be trendy/hip/organic/or ethiopian. Further, without taking responsibility for bringing our preferred alternatives to the neighborhood proactively or opening such businesses ourselves, it is hard to argue for the alternative when the alternative is nothing.

The fact is that this is America. There are such things as private property rights (thank god). While Northern Liberties has some say over what opens and what doesn't, we don't have total control nor should we. We shouldn't act like a bunch of facist snobs.

It is one thing to oppose a bar or nudey club because of the impact it will have on the neighborhood (this is what the Northern Delaware Ave zoning overlay if for). It is another thing to use that overlay totally innocuous businesses with good intentions just because we don't like them.

In the end, the ZBA (city zoning board) has the final say. David Auspitz is going to hold up our denial of a place like Rita's because it isn't high brow enough for the hipsters. Quite frankly, he'd laugh us out of the hearing and give the applicant (Rita's) free reign to do what it pleases, in terms of store design, lighting etc.

Again, people are allowed to express their opinion, whether you consider it to be negative or to be positive.

I enjoy and look to Azure for good food & service, but not for neighborhood politics. If people want to praise Rita's, so be it. If people want to bash Rita's, so be it.

By the way, there are many businesses that could bring more foot traffic to 2nd St, but this alone doesn't mean people want those businesses here. Moreover, some people don't want the 'foot traffic' they have in Old City and other areas. Some people actually want quiet at night. Foot traffic isn't the panacea to the problems currently faced by some businesses in NLs. Good business is. If you provide superior, unique product and service, people will come to you, even from miles away.

It's funny, Disagree, what's this free speech angle you're trying to "oppress" Azure with. He's speaking his mind, and it should be apparent to everyone but the most pathologically paranoid that he has no power to shut down or censor any communication on this forum; and only someone with that pathology would accuse Azure of doing anything of the sort. Like you, he was expressing his opinion, just as you have a right to take offense at that opinion ... and come off a little weird in doing so.

Your economics are also a little off. It's a known fact that foot traffic is good for business, as it increases the number of people who may use area businesses on a whim. You're talking a pretty high overhead (and may have been high during your econ study) if you think the key to making the NL biz community stronger is for essentially every business in NL becoming a "destination" business that people will go out of there way to frequent. Most business people contrary to what you see on TV are not operating like the hair brained schemers of The Apprentice, rather their goals tend to be much more modest. So far NL has some "destination" nightlife that people will come from out of the neighborhood to frequent, but there's also plenty of room for biz that would cater just to neighborhood, like a Rita's. As I've said before, the much maligned people of NJ will not be thronging over the Ben Franklin to line up at the NoLibs Ritas. When NL bizfolk are talking about drumming up foot traffic, they mean foot traffic of the NL population. You know give the community something to do, so they don't go to Old City or wherever. That traffic is both good for the NL bizfolk AND also has the 'soft' impact of creating a more neighborly atmosphere.

In short, your post was just confusing. You assail Azure on some free speech grounds that is more off-base than the 1st Ammendment outcry over Don Imus. Then you offer some strange critique of area business practices that doesn't really apply to Ritas. Were you attacking Azure. I don't know.

Again, no one's saying you aren't free to speak your mind. But everyone who reads your thoughts are also free to call you out on what you wrote as b.s.

Maybe Azure will start selling water ice.

Cheesteak, your comments, like your ridiculous name, are trash not worth addressing. You spend WAY too much time looking for controversy on this Forum. You spare no posting from your useless, inflammatory, offensive diatribe. Hopefully your IP address will soon be banned here. For heaven's sake, man, get a job, or focus more on the one you have. You can beat this addiciton. If you need professional help, it's available. Seek it out, and leave others in peace.

Azure's Sunday brunch has a crap cake benny on it, and I think it is amazing. Sorry for going off topic.

Crap cakes...that's what Philly's famous for.

Thought it was scrapple, pretzels, cheesesteaks and soon to be ritas the water ice selling crime eliminating neighborhood store.

Hey, Disaster. I wasn't saying Rita's would 'eliminate crime'. I said the foot traffic may help alleviate some of the car break-ins and other random muggings in our neighborhood. On the other hand,it could also increase it I suppose. I guess I was just being opptomistic; a word that seems to be absent in your vocabulary. What kind of negativity could Rita's possibly bring?

Ri-coolita-Rita's Ri-coolita-Rita's

Disagree-

So much for neighborhood diversity, I guess? Are you one of those pioneering liberals who likes diversity so long the "diverse" people in the neighborhood only like to eat granola, organic kale, and soy milk? Or, do you embrace true diversity which might mean, gulp, that a blue collar family who has lived in the neighborhood for years has access to a service that it might appreciate, like a Rita's? Maybe if I make $30,000 per year and have two kids, I don't want to buy my treats at Franklin Fountain for $4 a pop. Maybe I want to buy 3 small water ices for $4 total instead.

VERY GOOD POINT, Mr.3rd&Brown

My God folks, its only water ice! Even though my personal preference is ice cream, what is the horror about water ice? After all, it is one of Philly's staples. The point is a young man has decided to take a risk and open his own business...give him a chance to contribute to the neighborhood. Besides, have you ever tried lemon water ice with Vodka? MMMMMMMMMMM good on a nice summer night!

foohkin mad for water ice me... am pining for a fresh hot pretzel stand too!

You're a funny one, 3rd & Brown. Families making 30k with 4 kids in NLs? Be serious, sir. Most of those have already been pushed out already by gentrifiers like you who eulogize about overpriced pasta at Sovalo and chi-chi Parisian cafes for rich people on this Forum. Like you, the newer residents of NLs can very well afford pretty much anything they like. Besides, as an old man, I can tell you that you get what you pay for in life. Sure, Rita's cheaper than Franklin Fountain, but you're intoxicating your body and consuming a much inferior product as a result. People are free to do that with their money and bodies, of course, but it surprises me a gourmand like yourself would promote this kind of consumer behavior, espeially when we're not talking about the difference, in dollar terms, between buying a used Ford and a brand new Bentley.

As for supporting young men opening new businesses in NLs, who could possibly be against that, Nina? Especially if you get to do their banking business at your branch? No one is saying this wonderful symbiotic relationship should be opposed. What some people are expressing is that young men have a choice of businesses they can open here, and Rita's is a business that happens not to be disliked by some consumers (and to be liked by others). Your young man will open his business and perhaps you will do (or are already doing) his banking. The marketplace will then decide on the fate of this new venture.

Finally, while we're on the topic of glorious Philly staples, it is not at all unlikely that, within the next 12 mos, NLs will have it's own cheesesteak joint(s) and a Rocky statue in the middle of Liberty Lands, so everyone please chill out and be patient.

Amen Slurps. Additionally why does it have to be Franklin fountain or Rita's. Is everything on this board always reduced to a dichotomy. there are many different stores that can successful. Why can't someone just open a freakin original ice cream store/water ice stand. Is it so hard to come up with an original concept. I mean if you have the money to open your own business shouldn't you take some pride or personal stake in it, instead of regurgitating someone else's overdone idea.

DISAGREE AKA SEN. JOE MCCARTHY

NOW YOU WANT TO CENSOR CHEESESTAKE FROM THE BOARD . AND I QUOTE YOU
(Hopefully your IP address will soon be banned here).

WHAT NEXT BRAIN WASH THE YOUNG BURN DOWN RITAS OPEN CAMPS TO SEND ALL WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU.

SOUNDS FAMILIAR

Kind of partial to GW jr. myself. Does typing in capitals make you feel more like a man or are you trying to emphasize your point. Either way its kind of pathetic.

disagree2 ( in small case)

i was speaking of Hitler (duh) funny how you thought it was GW. seems you are partial to both

P.S.

I am a young women who might like things big, (CAPS) sue me

I too enjoy "Big Things" asside from the overzealous use of capitalizing all words in postings in some attempt to prove a point. So are they built for comfort or are they built for speed because i am a motor boatin' son of a gun.

Only on this pathetic "neighborhood" board could a pensive welcome salutation to a new business degenerate into accusations of fascism and McCartheyism. The truly ridiculous part is that something similar happens time and time again on a seeming majority of threads.

There are far too many f'ing miserable and hateful people wasting their time here. I am embarressed to say that they are my neighbors. Learn to behave.

There are still plenty of families without a lot of money who are still in the neighborhood and have not yet been pushed out. But we don't see them often because not many of the businesses are affordable to them. Rita's is not a manifesto, a deus ex machina, or a conspiracy.

It's dessert.

Disagree, you're really funny. So you take the free speech barricades, except in my instance. Really, if we were banning IP addresses, your IP would be associated with the nitwit who links to random businesses and politicians (Capogiro, Obama, etc.) and dropping unsubstantiated word that "they're coming to NL". So who's IP gets banned, the one who people have occasional difficulty with (but listers tend to agree or respect regardless) or the outright liar? Short version, your last post just shows you for the shallow hypocrite you are. Sorry if you find that insulting and hateful, but behavior gets what's warranted.

Slurpy, how does being an old man make you an expert on nutrition? All I can think of is maybe your argument's paraphrasing a Reader's Digest or Prevention article, old people still read them right?

Anyhow, what's the nutritional menace posed by Ritas? From my understanding we're talking about shave iced with a shot of flavor syrup. Yes corn syrups are bad if they become a dietary staple, but we're not talking about a "dose" any greater than the "flavor shots" one may have with a coffee drink or what gives the soda water it's taste in those "Italian sodas" people pick up at coffee shops. Really fat/calorie/sugar wallop, the stuff whipped up at Franklin would be more of a hit to your bodies insulin regulation and metabolism than ritas flagship product. What you thought Franklin was an organic ice cream shop? That wouldn't really help much if it were, but you might want to rethink things.

Besides, does anyone think the Franklin's self-representation on their website:
http://www.franklinfountain.com/
seem a little pretentious "tough". I mean come on, the owners should have known better, but the photographer could have explained to them explain to them that they're soda jerks / ice counter proprietors, not the barmen at the saloon by the OK Corral? That photo gives off a "kid unfriendly, unless you're an ironic rejuvenile hipster in which case empty your chain wallet on us, please" vibe. The good humor man was not the surly man who looked constipated because his mortgage is chewing on his bowels.

Ritas isn't an apocalyptic business. At best, it's detractors can claim its an eyesore. These are the same people I imagine who complain about the Pepsi signage in Elixir. In short, these are people who want total control of their urban environment "experience." I'm sorry, but the only place you're promised/sold on that sort of environmental autonomy is the suburbs, and it's a myth there too. Urban life is always about compromise and live and let live. I don't know why the "open minded" "progressive" types of today don't get that. I guess it's because among latter Gen Xers and Gen Y, open minded and progressive aren't so much actual values as T-shirt type slogans worn to fit in.

All commies, censors, water ice haters/lovers, jerseyite greasers, dog poop/dookie perpetrators, etc...can we put all the entropy on this board into something good - like the upcoming plant sale or park clean ups???

the irony is that all these corporate chasing moral crusaders, who yammer about gentrification and the horrors of chains infiltrating our neighborhood, dont seem to be supporting the mom and pops businesses that are currently struggling in our neighborhood. how many coffee shops have we seen come and go in the last few years? how many boutiques do you see that are constantly empty? how many restaurants are having a hard time? instead of complaining about the evil chains, why not vote with your dollar and put your money where your mouth is. support all the struggling mom and pop businesses. i cant say for sure, but i have this odd premonition, that those who reject chains coming into the neighborhood, probably shop at chains outside of the neighborhood. jeeez, targets clothing is pretty much the standard uniform for hipster dudes in the neighborhood. case and point, if you dont like ritas, dont go there, and if enough people agree with you, than it will go out of business..isnt capitalism beautiful?

Cheesesteak and Northern Libertarian are right on. Disagree, all you do is disagree, why not go live in a gated community in the burbs. You probably rent here and will be moving on anyway. Bring it on Rita's and anyone else to give us a place to walk to and spend our money in a safe lighted invironment. I walk down Second Street (and have done so for 7 years) and feel less safe then I did before because of all the empty store fronts. "If you build it, they will come" I plan on spending the next 7 years here and hopefully will be "spending" more and more of my income here.

I have 2 letters for you disagree:
f
u

Slurps,
Whether a business banks with me or not, that's not the point...besides, as a business woman and a neighbor, if folks do not support the locals then we will close, including my branch. Closed businesses are not in the best interest of the community. If the businesses do not thrive and prosper then the infrasture of the community loses as well. We want to be able to acquire city grant's, more police protection etc. and, this can not be accomplished in a ghost town. Slurps, in spite of what you might think, I am not self-serving and really do care about this neighborhood. Perhaps, you should come out of the shadows and volunteer to maintain and perserve your community. Do something positive and put a face and name to your deeds.

Some of these posts are so good I might have to print them out and put them on my fridge. Keep it up you sarcastic, cynical, opinionated NoLibbers!!

Is Rita's open yet?

You'll know when it opens. If this board's any indicator, just follow the sirens and sounds of military grade ordinance popping off. Rendell will have to station National Guard to ward of the throng of people who hate people from New Jersey, or something like that, I still don't understand it. Just remember that classic Philly graffiti from back in the day: When the bomb goes up, make sure you're higher than the bomb....

lol... its so hilarious that everyone who is against Rita's will be the first people in line waiting to get a water ice !! you guys are pathetic !! Although we don't know who you are .. WE'LL SEE YOU IN LINE DUMB A$$"E$ !! lol

Maybe when the casino come NL can get a hotel, pychic reading shop, buffets, and 40/40 club with espn on the screen. We could create jobs and ruin families with one stone.

Are psychic readings really that detrimental to society? What do the psychic's reveal dark, Faulknerian truths, thus shattering families?

is there no end to these moronic posts? thats the first time ive read creating jobs and ruining families in the same sentence. tell me, what exactly is your idea of community uplift? is it safe to assume that your idea of community uplift involves some sort of beurocratic extortionist nanny government? i hear over and over again how businesses opening in a community will ruin the community but yet to hear a single solution from these moral crusaders. even if you do endorse some sort of welfare community, the welfare community will require taxes to be funded. if there are no businesses, there is no tax revenue. seems to me these so called community activists are just shooting yourselves in the foot

So... There's a Rita's opening?

THERE SHOULD BE SO MUCH INTEREST IN TOWN WATCH AS THERE IS IN FREAKING WATER ICE. GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE. ITS JUST FREAKING WATER ICE. PERSONALLY I'D LOVE TO TAKE MY KIDS TO LIBERTIES LANDS AND BEFORE WE HEAD HOME STOP AT RITA'S AND GET SOME WATER ICE. AND REMEMBER WHILE THERE IS SO MUCH VENOM SPEWING OVER WATER ICE 33 PEOPLE WERE MURDERED AT VIRGINIA TECH. WHY NOT STOP THIS INSANITY FOR A SECOND AND HAVE A MOMENT OF SILENCE TO REFLECT ON THE MADNESS AND THINK A POSITIVE THOUGHT FOR THE VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES. AND I SAID MOMENT OF SILENCE, NOT PRAYER FOR ALL OF YOU WHO MIGHT JUMP DOWN MY THROAT ABOUT THE "P" WORD.
OH AND SLURP--I'LL THINK OF YOU EVERY STINKING TIME I GET A GELATO!
RI-COOLITA-RITA'S RI-COOLITA-RITA'S!
PEACE

Heather, I haven't said anything to this point because you do a good thing with your town watch crusade. However, the reason you don't get much response is b/c most people understand it is a futile task. Walking around a neighborhood at 7pm is not going to have any impact whatsoever on crime. Now if you organized a midnight-shift town watch, where members hid in doorways watching streets and cars, then you might have an impact.

I belive you get a both a sense of community and a sense of keeping the neighborhood safer by leading your organization - which is fanstastic. You just have to understand that most people aren't looking for a community social group. With all that said, better you care than don't. Keep on keeping on.

As for the anti-establishment hipsters, the real irony is that you will soon be priced out of the urban culture you profess to love so - right into the dreaded burbs. Some of you might even end up in... wait for it.... South Jersey! The horror!

I wasn't going to chime in on this but since you mentioned it Heather, what Rita's serves and calls gelato, isn't. I saw some that someone had purchased and it was basically water ice and soft-serve ice cream served together.
Being a slightly ethnocentric Italian-American I was mortified and couldn't sleep for days...the horror,the horror! Don't care about the water-ice since that's American anyway, but they should not **** with gelato!

CC--I appreciate your input and honestly I agree with you to some point. I do not believe that a watch group is futile though. If there is a regular watch group going then people get the idea that there is no tolerance for crime in the 'hood. That alone can deter someone from committing a crime. A lot of the stuff I've read about has occured evening hours and even in the afternoon. Its about making a presence. Crime happens 24/7. Watch groups also help the Police stay informed of what is going on in the area. If we are out at 7pm and we observe narcotics or other illegal activity we call the local precinct and file a role call complaint. There might be something going on that they were not aware of.
Will a watch group stop all crime? Absolutely not. Will it help reduce crime? Yes it will. If the crooks and thugs know that the community has no tolerance for crime they will start to focus elsewhere. I guess we can hope that other community's don't have message boards to be exposed to my rants.
As for the all caps rant--it just burns me up with all of the madness in this world how people can be so negative about something like water ice. Its not an adult book store, its water ice. A strong business association will help keep a balance between the unique local shops and the "chain" stuff. Main St. in Manyaunk is a great example.
I'm not just about community watch, I'm about encouraging every measure that will help strengthen a community and is positive. NL all ready has a lot of good community stuff going on from Liberties Lands to the Dog Park and NLNA. More can be done to solidify the community to help reduce crime and make sure 2nd street doesn't wind up like South Street.
I never expected a strong response to efforts for community watch. I'm realistic. I know that most people feel its pointless. Hey sometimes even I get discouraged. It takes a lot of my time and I feel guilty for being Ms. Activist when my kids want me to be "mom." I don't get paid, in fact it actually cost me money. But in the end I know that these small efforts do help. I've met some wonderful people and I've learned a lot. Once we help establish Town Watch in NL and get a dog walking group started I'll be around for support to keep things going. But once we get things going ok here we'll focus efforts on something else. I'm passionate about NL because I live so close and my kids attend school in NL and my husband and I like to eat and drink in NL and we love the park and so on.
Maybe once Rita's opens we all can have a water ice fight or something silly. If there is one thing I've learned from my kids its you're never too old for food fights, playgrounds, and Dr. Seus.

DDR-lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol. You've got me on that one. lol lol lol lol

Hey Reality Slurps,

Just because I can afford to eat at Sovalo doesn't mean I don't appreciate a good Rita's. I know plenty of foodies who like a good water ice every now and again...nothing wrong with it. Remember, you're the facist snob, not me.

And, in case you haven't noticed, there are plenty of single mothers in the neighborhood with children; I live next to two of them. Just because you don't see them when you're hanging out at the 700 Club or riding your slightly worn bike to the Fire, doesn't mean they don't exist. They're at work trying to make ends meet. They shop at Liberty Deli, not the Palm and I suspect that they'll go to Rita's, not to Franklin Fountain.

That's what an urban experience is all about. We don't all have to shop at the same places. We don't have to like the same things. And fortunately, we don't all have to force our own santized view of what a "hip" "urban" experience is onto the unwilling masses.

here's a preview of the crowd that'll be hangin' at rita's:



be careful, or they'll teach YOU how to fall down!

Bless your heart, Heather! Glad you saw the humor in that...although I was half kidding.

DDR--I have the kind of sick and twisted sense of humor that only 4 kids and 10 years of my super smart azz husband can give a person. Maybe some day I'll write a book "Behind the Beret" An Angel with a concrete halo. or something like that.

You must be a professional comedian, 3rd&Brown. So now you show everyone that, in your closed mind, not only do all blue collar families prefer Rita's to Franklin Fountain, but so do all single mothers. Moreover, you stereotypically argue that these categorical groups of yours must perforce buy goods and services at lower end establishments, since they have hardly any money (even if their NLs homes may be nowworth hundreds of thousands), and, unlike you, they lack any good taste. But wait, you will now say, the two single mothers that live next to me are both poor and they rent! What's next, 3rd&Brown? They're also African American and got pregnant at 13?

Give you neighbors the benefit of the doubt, 3rd&Brown. Learn to be humble. Buy a them a cone from Franklin, tell them about your Parisian cafes and the delicious gnochi you eat with truffle olive oil at Sovalo. Oh, and in the highly ulikely event they ask you how much you paid for the luxurious cone, tell them an additional 50 cents gets you access to the wonderful sybaritic life you lead.

Northern Liberator

I was just saying adding another vice(casino) to a city with violence is not good. Lottery tickets are huge in low income communities. Now Put a Casino in arms reach. That is where you ruin families. I like ritas. However, I think it will look silly on that street.

Cheese
I was just saying(with a lot of sarcasm)maybe we could turn NL into AC.