So sorry to hear about Lily :(

RIP sweet Lily xx

Celia and Jimmy
Lost for words for once in my life - U both know my feelings about leads (and muzzles for that matter) so Im not going to go into a major rant altho believe me it makes me so angry.Poor baby.
However, do not blame urselves u always do what seems the right course of action for each of ur dogs and unfortunately people are so much harder to read than our darling hounds. Just keep doing what ur doing cos it helps so many both human and hound x

I can't stop thinking about this wee girl, my only wish is that i had kept her now.

You did your best for her Celia and Jimmy, it was the person who adopted her that let her down big time! Her life was ended due to the irresponsible actions of her owner, can't get my head round that one!!!

What i can't get my head round is ----

WHY GET THE POOR GIRL PUT DOWN !!!!!

The more i think of this, the more confusing it becomes! For anyone who met/saw Precious they will know that she was a small petite girl who i wouldn't have said was capable of bringing down a deer ...what does anyone else think??


It makes me wonder if someone is not forthcoming with all the facts!

Personally I think the person or people involved are from the wally range of the human specimen - stupid..to put it bluntly.

To think a dog has been PTS because of something that was a natural thing for a dog to do, which the dog only did because it was let off to run around in an environment that was not suitable!!!.

It would perhaps be ideal to alert all rescues via email & via word of mouth to those idiots to ensure that this does not happen again.

Dear Celia & Jimmy, so sorry to read all the above posts - how can people be so stupid when it comes to greyhounds - my 3 are all kept on short leads (as I know Jake & Tara are still both interested in small furry things).

I feel for you guys but you done your best and cannot take responsibility for the idiots out there

Love & hugs from our 4 legged crew

Ray, there is a tremendous depth of feeling regarding the tragic loss of Precious and I appreciate your sentiments, but, trying to ferret out personal details of this family is only going to land everyone with a harassment charge. We have felt it necessary to delete your posting. We should not have a war situation ever, where our loving dogs are concerned, but, a wee life was lost unnecessarily and we are all taking this very badly.
I feel that we must make the matter of not letting off the lead be absolutely clear when people read our process for adoption ( next job ).
Precious was not a greyhound she was a small lurcher, not much bigger than a Jack Russell.
Today, at the kennel ( Baltree ) I was speaking to Paula who writes our Newsletter. She is very good friends with Laura. I asked what had happened and she said she was not there at the time but Precious had downed the deer and chewed its hind quarters and chewed off its tail??? ( A deer's tail? )
She said Laura had been on the phone ( or texted ) that they had an appointment at the vet that night and Precious was going to be put to sleep. She said that she thought they were kidding.
Never the less, one warning phone call to us or Union Farm would have brought the cavalry charging out. If it had been a false alarm at least we would have known that this family were having problems. At worst, we would have brought her in and rehomed her to a family who would not let her run free. Sometimes our dogs come back, often for family reasons, but we want throw the book at someone who decides to play God.
We feel that, for the better, Paula should remove herself from any more dealings with GRF. That much has been made clear.
Nothing we do can bring this girlie dog back.
This rescue devotes all time and energy to maintaining life for all the unfortunate dogs who come our way. Our Prime Objective is to ensure that owners do not put down healthy dogs. This incident has gone against all the principles we hold dear. I am talking for all at Baltree and Union Farm, all the volunteers who give regularly of their time and energy. What an end to the year and one of our beloved furry children.
Celia.

Celia and Jimmy

I am glad you have taken that posting off. As awful as this situation is and no matter how stupid this family are, there is no point risking harassment allegations - that would just make the matter worse for yourselves and as you say it will not bring the wee girl back.

What I cannot get into my head is someone willingly having their dog put to sleep rather than persuing the option of bringing her back to you for rehoming, or at least contacting you first for advice. Especially given that this family obviously had strong links with GRF in the past.

I can only hope that this family have read these posts and think very hard about Isla. Lets hope they have come to their senses and either ensure Isla is always walked on a lead or if they are not prepared to ensure her safety, Isla is returned to you for rehoming. I will keep my fingers crossed for her.

I know this has been really upsetting for you both and all involved at Baltree and Union Farm, but you are all doing a fantastic job, please dont lose heart. There are so many of our four legged friends out there who need your help.

Wishing all of you the very best for 2010.

Much love and great respect
Kaz, Pat and Ace

In light of this thread, and in particular it's recent turn, I would like to share with you my views on the topic of hounds off the lead and putting a dog to sleep.

I must firstly admit that I initially felt that letting your hound off the lead would be just fine if you were away from other dogs and any roads. Then I read the 'trust' article - http://www.greyhoundrescuefife.com/trust.htm, and had to consider just how quickly your hound can disappear from view if you allow him/her. There have also been tragic posts on this forum telling us, warning us, of the consequences of letting our hounds off the lead. You can shout all you like, you can delude yourself that you have 'trained' your hound to come back when called, but 4000 years of breeding and instinct will win over any training you can do every single time.

You may look at your beloved grey with his/her sweet innocent eyes, consider how petite and slight he or she looks and convince yourself they wouldn't hurt a fly. You can convince yourself that your hound was not trained to race, or was not trained with live bait, and that he or she does not therefore have any chase instinct but you will be fooling no-one other than yourself. My parents took on two rescued pups (their mother and her litter had been dumped by the canal by their owner). Those dogs had never been trained to race or chase a lure, but let me assure you their chase instinct was just as strong as any other grey. I'll say it again - 4000 years of breeding shines through every time.

I think it's fair to say that we may never know the exact circumstances of this alleged deer attack, but can we be absolutely sure this little hound did not fell a deer? If even a slight ten to twenty kilos of hound hit your ankle or calf at thirty miles per hour I reckon there's a fair chance you'll fall over. Same goes for a deer that's running in fear of its life. The point is that the dog should never have been off the lead in the first place, and that was not the dogs fault.

If she had killed another dog, or maimed a child then there is no question - the law demands she be put to sleep. But surely if all she has done is to injure a deer, due to the poor judgement of her owner, this is far too high a price to pay. Yes the owner should feel bad for allowing it to happen, but to put the dog to sleep to appease their guilt can never be right, and in my view is a selfish and callous act.

Putting a dog to sleep should never be taken lightly. I whole hearetedly agree with GRFs position that a healthy dog should never be put to sleep. We were living in a flat when we first met Cyril and Mabel (our last two) and we sponsored them and walked them every weekend until we were in a position to buy a house to adopt them. They were seven years old when that happened. Cyril was a beautiful brindle boy. Just before we were due to adopt him he came close to death. He lost half his weight, and his eyesight. Knowing he was so close to getting his forever home the rescue kennels and their vets pulled out all the stops and saved him. Eventually it turned out that his optic nerves had wasted away but steroid treatment restored his vision and slowly he returned to health (he remained on steroids for the rest of his days), although he was never as strong as he was before. He had a few more scares along the way but he had a good five years with us before he finally lost the fight. Even though it was absolutely the right time and the right decision for him to be put to rest, I have to tell you that fateful last trip to the vets was the worst day of my life. Anybody who has had to do the same thing will know exactly what I'm talking about.

Mabel was a gorgeous brindle girl. She lived to fifteen. Over her last six months she gradually lost her strength and despite all the treatment we could try the day came when she could no longer stand and continue with any quality of life. We knew that day was coming, but nevertheless it was still every bit as tragic and devasting.

I cannot begin to comprehend how anybody could put a fit and healthy dog to sleep, especially when that dog is their pet. It absolutely beggars belief. You would have to pry them from my cold dead hands before I'd let you do that to any dog of mine.

Please note that if this family's address or telephone number are given out to anyone, not only could you be charged with harassment, but can also be charged with breaking the data protection act for giving out personal information of former employees.
Regarding, relieving Paula from volunteering with GRF, this incident was out of her control. It was not her decision or in her ability to prevent Lily from being put down. It was the owner's decision alone. I think considering all the effort and hard work she has put in, your treatment towards her is ridiculous to be quite frank, it is only yourself and the hounds who will lose out, and for anyone to suggest that the owner should have been put down instead of the dog is just sick. I'm sure the family would have been very traumatised to have witnessed the deer lying in agony with one leg chewed off (not just a tail), and although I disagree with their decision, it IS their decision, and you must respect that. Using this forum to harass people is not acceptable.
Frankly as much as I admire the work done for these dogs, I think it should be Celia that should wear the muzzle.
R.I.P Lily

After reading through this forum, i have became slighlty disturbed at what is going on here.
GRF, i thought would reley and apprieciate the voluntary work of our community. Yet what i read here, is that a girl (whom has no direct influence of the putting down an animal) whom has dedicated a lot of time, effort and love to GRF is getting punished.
This to me is madness and i would like to know who has the right to make this decision? Someone clearly has got to big for there shoes and needs a reality check. Maybe this just sums up todays world!

Hi concerned greyhound owner. If you really are concerned you should agree with us.
Regarding your comment that Celia should not be giving out 'phone numbers that could cause harassment, if you took time to observe you would see that the offending post was removed, as soon as it was seen. Who removed it? Celia did, to save the people from harassment. You are quite wrong. In any case the 'phone number listed would not have given out such information.
You comment that Paula had no say in the decision to put Lily to sleep and she could not have stopped it is only half true.
We agree she did not take the decision but she had three hours to 'phone us to save Lily's life. We could have used our rehoming agreement power to force Lily back to us. Paula chose not to save Lily's life. Quote Paula, " I didn't know how to tell you! " I hope she always remembers that. We have fully appreciated her excellent work for us and welcomed her but this last indecision goes absolutely against all that GRF stands for. So would she have been happy walking amongst us? I think not, knowing that all of us knew what she had failed to do.
Watch what you are saying friend. We have never stated that the owner should be put to sleep, on our forum. That tends towards slander. We won't catch you though, since, unlike us you are an alias.
You state the owner would be traumatised. Undoubtedly. However if the owner had heeded countless pieces of advice from many people, Lily would not have been in the situation and so the owner would not have been traumatised.
You tell Celia she must respect the owner's decision. Celia abhors it, since the dog could have been brought back to safety and rehomed to sensible people.
Finally the comment regardng the muzzle is typical of someone frightened to tell me who you are.

Bemused reader. Please note, Celia, the owner of the kennels, is the person who has the right. Since we are in the business of stopping dogs being put to sleep we cannot have our own people knowingly allowing dogs to be put to sleep.
Read the above reality check, then on your post use a spelling check.

Respect the decision of someone who chose to put a healthy dog to sleep!! You mean just like that person respected the rehoming agreement, i riiiight, she let Precious off lead and continued to do so knowing she had hunted down rabbits previously with total disregard to the safety of the dog and wildlife ...a responsible owner, i think not!!!

Celia has the best interest of the dog at heart and your response is to muzzle her ...not so much a concerned greyhound owner after all huh when a dogs life becomes a disposable commidity due to a careless owner.

I thank god that woman is no longer working at Union Farm due to her total disregard to the needs of the hounds.

I cannot believe this whole debate is still continuing!! As Steve posted earlier and as I know myself taking a dog on that last journey to the vet is one of the most distressing awful experiences - and that is when there really is no choice due to illness or old age!! How anyone can defend anyone who chooses to put a healthy dog to sleep due to something that happened due to their choice to let the dog run loose DESPITE so much evidence and advice given that this was not the correct course of action I feel just beggars belief!! Get real folks and try to look honestly into your own hearts and see if you really can defend this. As for who is or isnt to blame for all this obviously the owner takes the main slab of that cake but ANYONE who knew that this dog was to be put to sleep and didnt act shares this blame!!!
As for folk not having the bottle to say who they are on here when they want to critisise or slag off others - well I think that says how much belief they have in their own words.
So... give it a rest in defending the humans involved and spare a thought for little Lily who paid the price.

Well said Joan, we the Wilson family totally agree with your brief but to the point posting.

R.I.P. Lily aka Precious

Un-frigging-believable. I can't believe that any sensible animal lover could have such a holier than thou attitude when it comes to making use of breed knowledge being given freely by experienced owners.

Although I've had the pleasure of living with several different breeds of dog, including GSDs, I had never had the privelege of sharing our home with greys until we got Vince and Freya.

My partner and I listened to all the info Celia and Jimmy gave us, especially concerning muzzle and lead usage and built on that knowledge by watching our animals nearly all the time at home and ALL the time we are out with them.

It still amazes me just how quickly these hounds can accelerate - a human has absolutely no chance of catching one if it decides to run - and also just how quick their head movement is when they want to investigate something.

R.I.P. Lily. taken far too early but certainly in a far less abusive place now than your last place on earth.

When Celia and Jimmy brought Wee man to me...they gave me instructions....2 leads to be worn at all times....muzzle when out and about....IS this info so hard to take in?? Both of them know their job and certainly know more about greyhounds than I ever will..so PLEASE listen to THEM ONLY....what they tell you is for the safety and care of your hound...and to help you be responsible.....

I feel so sorry for the dog but also for the girl. I have had Greyhounds for the last twenty years and believe me there are some dangerous hounds just the same as all breeds and the one person that should know this is Celia. Mistakes have been made in the past and she will not forgive anybody, she has made mistakes as well so give the girl a break, nobody is perfect.

Of course there are hounds that are "dangerous" if thats what u want to call an inbred urge to chase which is what we are talking about in this case...in that case as my hound would chase and catch given the chance then maybe you would call my hound dangerous also? But guess what? My hound is kept on a lead and muzzled! This discussion is not based on one persons opinion but many hound owners - I myself have only had my hound for a year and a half but have had dogs of many shapes and sizes for nearly 20 yrs and so have some idea what I am speakin about too. We all make mistakes in life no one can deny that but does that mean we should just accept anything that anyone does? I think not.

I agree that no-one is perfect but most people learn by their mistakes and this 'idiot' didn't, which resulted in the needless death of Precious. That aside she worked in the kennels, no doubt saw what they were all capable of, yet she still took the risk with her own hound ...sorry but that is unforgiveable.

Hi MARY. ( real name DAWN ).
Yes, you are correct. Celia has made many mistakes. One of the worst was to leave Casper in your foster care when he was advertised on our site for rehoming and you let him race at Thornton and he was killed. Yes, she didn't forgive you either, but then, it's kind of the same scenario.
Shame about your wee girl dog run over in Kirkcaldy on November 5th though.
Gotcha Dawn. Watch your friends.
Jimmy.

In answer to all your rantings..

Steve: The post suggesting this course of action was, quite rightly, removed from the forum as soon as GRF were aware of it

Yes this may have been removed, but not before it was read. I personally never read it but I know of it by reading Celia's comment underneath. So obviously he has already obtained details from Union Farm so information has ALREADY been given out.

Steve: To know hours in advance of this poor dogs fate and to fail to act is quite shocking. One phone call was all that was required.

Maybe Paula would have been able to phone Celia, but put in that terrible position of being close friend's with the family, and although she was very upset about the dog, she is a young girl and didn't know what to do. Saying that, even if Paula HAD phoned, Celia would have been able to do NOTHING as she neglected her duties in getting the adoption papers signed. Yes, no papers were signed!

Concerned Greyhound Owner

, ...and for anyone to suggest that the owner should have been put down instead of the dog is just sick.

Steve :I've just re-read the entire thread - nobody has suggested this

Actually well look again because someone called Bernie states on DEC 28th at 2:08pm posted "Absolutley outraged. Personally I think the human should have been put down not the grey."

Concerned Greyhound Owner

Using this forum to harass people is not acceptable.
Frankly as much as I admire the work done for these dogs, I think it should be Celia that should wear the muzzle.

Steve : "Brave words from somebody hiding behind an alias "


Okay, yes I have not displayed my name or any details. Even if I did leave my name, you would be none the wiser, I do not know you Steve. So it would make no difference. I am just annoyed at the harassment and unfair treatment given towards Paula.

In answer to your posting Jimmy,

I wonder now if everthing that needs to be said publicly on this very sad subject has now been said.

I really do not want to add anymore fuel to the fire as I think this thread has shown some very ugly sides to some of the posters and certainly does nothing for the GRF site.

I did see the post giving out personal mobile and home telephone numbers. I posted a message at the time saying how shocked I was, not only at the message inciting other users into harrassement of a member but also that a members personal details were displayed on a public forum. Unfortunately my post was deleted, I not really sure why as it was not offensive but showed concern at details being posted on a public site.

This is a very sad case, it has caused a lot of hurt and distress to a number of people, if any good will come of it then hopefully lessons will be learned and taken on board.

I would like to say that I do think that Paula has been unfairly treated and from what I can tell has proved her dedication to the breed and this incident should not marr that.

Unfortunately this whole incident has put the site and some of its memebers in a very bad light which is a shame for all the 'nice' caring grey owners out there.

Things have been said, threats have been made, actions have been taken and responsibility needs to be taken on board. Sweeping this under the carpet and denying responsibility will do this site or its users no good.

Sandra (who is not afraid to put her name!)

I think this has gone far enough folks.

I think most of the greyhound owners would agree that this dog was put to sleep without considering the opportunity available to the owners to contact Celia to have the dog rehomed or even ask for advice. However, this family had already shown that they thought they knew better by the previous posts and made it obvious they would not accept advice from anyone else. I hope they take better care of Isla. Nothing will bring this poor dog back.

As for the treatment of Laura, that is an issue between her and GRF and I feel any comments made by those of us who do not know the situation does not help matters. I also think that comments made about any subject on this forum cannot be taken seriously unless the author of the comments is prepared to make themselves known.

I have the greatest respect for GRF, and in particular Celia and Jimmy for all the hard work they do to find these dogs a home and their endless dedication. Nothing should detract from that and any comments about "muzzling" Celia I find very disrespectful and discourteous. We all make mistakes, no one is perfect, but that does not entitle others to make such hurtful comments about another person.

I think this has all gone far enough and that this thread should be frozen.

Celia - you just concentrate your energies as you always have done, in caring for and finding new homes for these marvellous creatures. You have a loyal band of volunteers and helpers who I am sure are behind you all the way. Don't waste your precious time in defending yourself to those who do not have the guts to put their name on their posts.

With the greatest respect to Celia, Jimmy and all the volunteers.

Kaz, Pat and Ace

Sorry to inform you but I am not mary.Mary is one of my mums old friends.ands sits with us most days.As for Casper he was not a foster dog I had him from a puppy and you knew him when I was fostering lots of your dogs Casper and Millie being killed will live with me for the rest of my life and you cannot blame me more than I blame myself so please leave me out of your vendetta.